Has the "Bear vs. Man" conundrum made you reconsider your writings?

[Voboy]

You turned something serious into a joke. Awesome.

Does the meme itself not "turn something serious into a joke?"

Many of us (men here as well as women here) are talking about bears in the woods because the meme in question talks about bears in the woods. I'm not sure why that would surprise anyone.

Of course rape is vile and reprehensible. Of course it is a valid fear some people (men as well as women) have. Nobody is minimizing that. We're discussing whether fear culture has a place in the fiction we create for this website, not whether rape is something we should or should not take seriously.

As I posted above, part of the danger here lies in mistaking memes for discourse or discussion. They are not. They are like political cartoons: they can inspire discussion, but they are not meant to substitute for it. Unfortunately, the internet has encouraged people to accept memes as contextual statements. I reject that; this issue is too important to be reduced to a soundbyte in that way. We can and should have serious discussions about sexual violence; we should not post memes as though they are Received Wisdom From Moses and then think we've deepened anybody's understanding of sexual violence.

 

[intim8]

We can and should have serious discussions about sexual violence; we should not post memes as though they are Received Wisdom From Moses and then think we've deepened anybody's understanding of sexual violence.

One of the worst things about the current political climate is that issues that both sides would normally have some overlap on get so polarized that we have one side saying it is the most and only important issue ever and the other saying it isn't an issue at all. And all because the sides disagree on the best ways to remedy it. And then memes and Twitter posts are used to score points instead of trying to remedy anything, so nothing at all gets done, by anybody.

 

[Cagivagurl]

When asked whether they would rather encounter a bear in the woods or a random man in the woods, most respondents (women and men), chose the bear.

I am embarrassed and disappointed to acknowledge that if I was making this choice for my wife or daughter, I would also rather they encounter the bear.

This almost universal lack of trust and fear of the human male is something that I am going to have to consider in some of the stories I am brainstorming.

What say you?

I'd go for the man...
We don't have bears, and where I live it is not unusual to find people hiking, tramping, fishing, hunting.
I spend a lot of time in the bush. Mostly mountainbiking, but my job also takes me off grid.
I have never had an issue with meeting strangers whilst hiking.

Cagivagurl

 

[AnnieLit]

Bears usually aren't out to get a human. But if a woman is on her period, it isn't a good time to be walking the woods. 'Tisn't a sexual thing, it's a food thing. Now, a man in the wooded area of a city might be a sexual or power thing. That's when it might be time for some mace, pepper spray, or run, baby run! Unless you've brought a gun to a knife fight. Then it's head, heart, nut sack, or cock shot.

That's not comparing apples to apples though. In a wooded area of a city there is a zero chance to meet a bear. And in the real woods there is basically the equal chance to meet a sexual or any other type of human predator.

 

[AchtungNight]

I'd go for the man...
We don't have bears, and where I live it is not unusual to find people hiking, tramping, fishing, hunting.
I spend a lot of time in the bush. Mostly mountainbiking, but my job also takes me off grid.
I have never had an issue with meeting strangers whilst hiking.

Cagivagurl

I’m the same way personally. The bear won’t help me either way- Baloo and Gentle Ben are fictional characters. I’d hope the guy would help me and if he won’t- well, I’m combat capable being a kid who grew up in Taiwan going to martial arts classes, working private security six years, then maintaining my skills once I found I preferred a different job. I will accept that a lot of people aren’t as capable. My advice- become so if you can. If not, well, fine, enjoy your cynicism. Stop subjecting me to it please. Thx.

The female characters in my stories are combat capable, famous (both these can be a shield), and/or willing to appreciate a decent human being with sexual desire when they meet one. Pity there aren’t more people like this in real life. Not saying I would create bad situations to excite them- that’s deplorable behavior. But if I’m ever in a situation where help is required and a hero’s reward is offered for the help, I will provide the help and take the reward. Not expecting it, just saying it’d be nice.

 

[KeithD]

In a wooded area of a city there is a zero chance to meet a bear.

Unfortunately, not anymore. In many urban areas, bears are being forced out of their habitats and finding garbage cans as their backup survival plan.

 

[SimonDoom]

Unfortunately, not anymore. In many urban areas, bears are being forced out of their habitats and finding garbage cans as their backup survival plan.

It's a big problem in the cities/towns that surround Lake Tahoe in California/Nevada. Bears regularly not only raid garbage cans but break into people's cars and houses. They are extremely smart and will eat anything. To my knowledge, these bears haven't hurt anybody yet. People who live in those areas have to take bears into account in making daily life decisions.

I think one can acknowledge that people have fears and that their personal experiences are valid while making the point that it's a good idea to put risks into perspective and to try to evaluate risk in as realistic a way as possible so you make good decisions and don't drive yourself crazy.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Unfortunately, not anymore. In many urban areas, bears are being forced out of their habitats and finding garbage cans as their backup survival plan.

Another problem in this area are the fruit trees people have in their back yards. Bylaws are being considered….

 

[AchtungNight]

This thread has inspired a story. Woman lost in the woods, evades bear by the skin of her teeth, then is rescued by decent guy and feels like rewarding him even though he doesn't care either way. She is cynical about decent men but willing to appreciate one. Working on it now.

Thanks, y'all.

 

[MrHereWriting]

This thread has inspired a story. Woman lost in the woods, evades bear by the skin of her teeth, then is rescued by decent guy and feels like rewarding him even though he doesn't care either way. She is cynical about decent men but willing to appreciate one. Working on it now.

Thanks, y'all.

A woman, rescued by a guy, in this age...

 

[mirafrida]

In all seriousness, carry bear spray if you are anywhere near where grizzlies are. It can 100% save your life.

 

[AchtungNight]

A woman, rescued by a guy, in this age...

He has a car and is willing to help. She’s out of gas.

 

[KeithD]

This thread has inspired a story. Woman lost in the woods, evades bear by the skin of her teeth, then is rescued by decent guy and feels like rewarding him even though he doesn't care either way. She is cynical about decent men but willing to appreciate one. Working on it now.

Thanks, y'all.

Yes, I assumed this thread would inspire several stories.

 

[Bramblethorn]

People are bad at estimating risks, especially with situations they've never experienced. For instance:



Asking them to compare two different types of risk is particularly hard. Meeting a bear in the wild is dangerous but not something that happens often; individual men are a relatively low risk, but most of us have a lot more encounters with men so it ends up being a more important risk, and translating that back to a single encounter isn't intuitive.

If I had to choose, I'd pick "man" ahead of "bear" (unless we're talking pandas or something). But the fact that a lot of people would have to stop and think about this question instead of just going "well obviously the man" bears thinking about.

(FWIW, here in Australia I'd choose "snake" ahead of "man", if we're not surprising one another at close range. Man ahead of buffalo, and buffalo ahead of saltwater croc.)

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm guessing ALL of the respondents "had never personally experienced" being mauled by a bear. Or ever having confronted a bear in the wild, for that matter.

The "sympathy and understanding" response is daft. The bear's response, if it could give it, would be the same, by analogy, as the male attacker's: "You entered the woods looking like a snack, so I treated you as a snack. Don't blame me."

Or perhaps more likely, "you got too close to my cubs".

 

[Paul_Chance]

LOL - I think the story should be inverted. "Bear Rescues Woman from "Nice" Guy".

 

[ElectricBlue]

Most of the respondents that I listened to on the Tik Tok post had never personally experienced physical or sexual abuse at the hands of a man, yet they still chose the bear.

A common statement was "If I am attacked by a bear, at least I'll get sympathy and understanding. I won't be made to think that it was my fault or because I dressed a certain way."

Gosh, a Tik Tok post! That's such an authoritative source, and a really representative data set of your typical thoughtful person. I'm going to let that input affect every single moral dilemma I have in my writing, from this moment on.

FFS, Bobby, are you serious?

Didn't mention your average Drop Bear, though, so it's not really a valid question.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Man rescues woman....
The biggest cliché ever....
Something I read somewhere. Not saying it's factual.
Men run out of petrol more often than women. Women are more risk aware and don't let the gauge get as low as men...
I found that interesting.
So if somebody was going to be recued in the wilderness, it wore likely be a man being saved by a woman...
Why not break the cliché, write something new.

 

[lustychimera]

LOL - I think the story should be inverted. "Bear Rescues Woman from "Nice" Guy".

I was thinking femboy escapes bear in the woods. Is saved by cocaine bear. Helps cocaine bear get clean. They have a lovely life together.

 

[AchtungNight]

Man rescues woman....
The biggest cliché ever....
Something I read somewhere. Not saying it's factual.
Men run out of petrol more often than women. Women are more risk aware and don't let the gauge get as low as men...
I found that interesting.
So if somebody was going to be recued in the wilderness, it wore likely be a man being saved by a woman...
Why not break the cliché, write something new.

Because it's a trope, not a cliche. And a car with a bad gas gauge can affect either sex. So can the desire to get a cheap rental car and have more money for entertainment when the only driving you're doing is from the airport to the resort and back. And I want to use a female protagonist. Plus it's a woman asking the original man vs. bear question.

Why not praise instead of criticize? I do break other cliches in the story, you know. And my writing has good quality in general, my usual fans agree. Hopefully I will again achieve their good opinion.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I wish there was a way to convince you there are still decent men out there- yes, even in a place like this. But if you don’t want to acknowledge them, that’s fine too. Out.

Say what? She wrote "we know its not everyone" in the post you're replying to.

 

[AchtungNight]

Say what? She wrote "we know its not everyone" in the post you're replying to.

Yeah, but all the words she said about the men who are bad spoke louder to me. So I answered them.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Yeah, but all the words she said about the men who are bad spoke louder to me. So I answered them.

As long as you're answering stuff, do you have any tips for how a woman can tell the difference between Bad Men and Good Men?

 

[AchtungNight]

As long as you're answering stuff, do you have any tips for how a woman can tell the difference between Bad Men and Good Men?

Good men say they're good men and mean it. Their actions further prove they are good men. As a person in need, you have to trust that they will prove their claims. If you're a cynic who doesn't want to accept help and cares more about reminding the man trying to help you he might be a bad man... well, good luck not approaching his breaking point and getting him to decide he'd rather not help you and leaving you in trouble.

As a wise god once said to a strong capable woman- "You, Sonya Blade, are afraid to admit even you sometimes need help. You must not be afraid to trust, or you will be defeated." Raiden, Mortal Kombat, 1990s film. True words.

 

[Paul_Chance]

People are bad at estimating risks, especially with situations they've never experienced. For instance:

View attachment 2344028

Asking them to compare two different types of risk is particularly hard. Meeting a bear in the wild is dangerous but not something that happens often; individual men are a relatively low risk, but most of us have a lot more encounters with men so it ends up being a more important risk, and translating that back to a single encounter isn't intuitive.

If I had to choose, I'd pick "man" ahead of "bear" (unless we're talking pandas or something). But the fact that a lot of people would have to stop and think about this question instead of just going "well obviously the man" bears thinking about.

(FWIW, here in Australia I'd choose "snake" ahead of "man", if we're not surprising one another at close range. Man ahead of buffalo, and buffalo ahead of saltwater croc.)

I love that chart. As someone who has fought a goose - LOL - those things are way tougher than you think. I didn't win. I escaped by virtue of the old indian trick of "run like hell"!