The 'ethics' of casual 'bdsm'

[Etoile]

Geoff is awesome and I hope to see him at Dragon*Con again this year!

But dude, for your own sanity, don't poke around under the bridge. Things bite under there.

(BTW, I'm on a train. They have wifi on the trains here. The future is now!)

 

[chy_girl]

Are you the same sn on fet as you are here?



There are a couple of guys around here who are super into fire play, and I've seen them using a glove before, yeah. It's really, a very performative type of play. I wonder if the actual sensations live up to the hype.

Same ol' same old. They aren't in my profile though, but I'd be more than welcome to direct you.

They used the glove on me when they lit me on fire and it was without a doubt the best sensation in the fire play. The feeling of a hand on fire grazing your bare skin... Yeah. And our fire guy does this flip around thing so the fire just barely kisses the skin and the hot air blows across the body and the whooosssh is such a head fuck. Even if you're not big into fire, the glove is worth a try.

 

[BLoved]

...

~smile~

Geoff, looking over your ad it does appear you have problems with your "supply of "play partners. One has to wonder if your "supply" is as constant if you say when you've been advertising since April 2009 and your number one complaint is that no one is interested.

And you would be more credible if you weren't constantly changing your claims.

But one mustn't expect too much from the Collarme alumni.

 

[00Syd]

Same ol' same old. They aren't in my profile though, but I'd be more than welcome to direct you.

They used the glove on me when they lit me on fire and it was without a doubt the best sensation in the fire play. The feeling of a hand on fire grazing your bare skin... Yeah. And our fire guy does this flip around thing so the fire just barely kisses the skin and the hot air blows across the body and the whooosssh is such a head fuck. Even if you're not big into fire, the glove is worth a try.

Good to know, good to know. Maybe I'll give it a try sometime (if I can get past my overwhelming fear of "Oh SHIT it's on FIRE!!")

 

[Evil_Geoff]

~smile~

Geoff, looking over your ad it does appear you have problems with your "supply of "play partners. One has to wonder if your "supply" is as constant if you say when you've been advertising since April 2009 and your number one complaint is that no one is interested.

You clearly have trouble understanding what people write.

My personal ad here is looking for a service oriented submissive, not a play partner. I'm looking for someone interested in doing housework and/or yardwork to help Tori and I maintain our home. That is very clearly stated.

Yes, I am more than happy to give SM play to someone in exchange for that service. I am a sadist after all. And that is clearly stated as well.

My personal add is linked in my profile sig line but in the interest of clarity, those who are following this discussion and would like to judge for themselves are welcome to read it HERE.

ETA: My "complaint" in the ad is that no one is interested in doing the housework and/or yardwork, not that I can't find people willing to play. Jesus, if I was only interested in play I'd be to busy playing to do any of the stuff around here that needs doing.

And you would be more credible if you weren't constantly changing your claims.

What's changing? I have stated, and maintain, that the ethics you speak of are not BDSM related or dependent, that ethics are a necessary component of human relationships and interaction. I assert that BDSM, in and of itself, is not an unethical activity, that it is the individual and the individual's actions that may, or may not be, unethical.

My belief in individual responsibility and ethics remains unchanged.

You keep insisting that "casual BDSM" as a practice is unethical.

But one mustn't expect too much from the Collarme alumni.

Alumni? I still maintain a profile on collarme. Again, anyone interested in judging for themselves can see it here: My CollarMe Profile

One mustn't expect much from someone who can not argue the merits of their own belief, and who instead relies on ad hominem personal attacks. Can't defend the belief? Attack the person opposing the belief!

*smile*

Now just how "ethical" is that?

 

[BLoved]

One mustn't expect much from someone who can not argue the merits of their own belief, and who instead relies on ad hominem personal attacks. Can't defend the belief? Attack the person opposing the belief!

*smile*

Now just how "ethical" is that?

Geoff, those who have actually read this discussion with an objective eye know I've argued the merits of my beliefs many times.

The last 50+ pages of this discussion has composed of casual players parading their abusive behaviour, thus providing credibility to my claims.

Anyone who doubts me is invited to read the discussion and determine the truth for themselves.

 

[Etoile]

You keep insisting that "casual BDSM" as a practice is unethical.

Don't waste your time, Geoff. He's not going to change his position.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Geoff, those who have actually read this discussion with an objective eye know I've argued the merits of my beliefs many times.

The last 50+ pages of this discussion has composed of casual players parading their abusive behaviour, thus providing credibility to my claims.

Anyone who doubts me is invited to read the discussion and determine the truth for themselves.

Actually, the last 80 or so pages have been you attacking "casual players" and casual BDSM with single-minded intensity. Yes, many people have had issue with you personally because of your attack-the-person style. Some of them have even been rude to you. And after a careful re-read of your line item issues, I'm left wondering where in God's name you've ever been where those kinds of behavior were actually allowed. I've been in public dungeons and play spaces from DC to Atlanta, to Austin, and never, EVER witnessed any of the kinds of behavior you are going off about. That's the kind of stuff written into erotic FICTION. There isn't a permanent public dungeon I've ever set foot in that would tolerate the stuff you talk about as examples of unethical "public play". Please provide locations and dates where you observed such acts taking place, because I'll work like crazy to have them shut down.

The only thing that the comments of others in this thread could POSSIBLY lend credibility to would be the idea that those individuals might be unethical.

NOTHING posted here applies to the thousands, nay, millions of other casual, ethical, moral BDSM folk who you have never had contact with, never spoken to, never experienced.

Your premise is like claiming all fish are man eaters because you've dealt with some sharks. Since sharks are fish, all fish therefore MUST be sharks.

It's a fallacious argument. Faulty logic. Your entire premise is invalid. The unethical behavior of a few does not make the practice itself unethical, nor does it make all those who participate in the practice unethical.

Following MY contention - individual responsibility dictates each person is responsible for his or her own ethical behavior, but following YOUR logic chain - the unethical behavior of the few makes an entire practice unethical, and all of those engaged in that practice unethical - clearly leads to the conclusion - there are unethical human beings engaged in relationships, therefore relationships are unethical and everyone who is in a relationship is unethical.

Are you beginning to have a glimmer of understanding here?

Your whole assertion demeans anyone and everyone who doesn't want a romantic long term BDSM relationship. Your whole assertion precludes the very idea that a submissive (you maintain it applies to submissive women, completely ignoring submissive men, which is in and of itself blatantly sexist) might actually know their own mind, their own needs, their own desires, and that YOU, in your infinite wisdom, somehow know what's best for every last one of them.

No one died and made you omniscent. You have no way of knowing what any particular submissive (male or female) in San Francisco, or Baltimore, or Toronto, or Toledo or Calgary, or Berlin wants or needs out of their relationships.

Will there be SOME who are looking for what you describe? Certainly. And that is perfectly fine for those that want that.

But the fact that SOME want that doesn't mean EVERYONE wants it. It doesn't mean EVERYONE should want it. It doesn't mean that what you describe is any better, or worse, or more true, or more false, than what someone else wants or needs in their life.

What you describe is a relationship OPTION, not a REQUIREMENT.

As long as you maintain the attitude that your way is "The One True, Right, Holy, and ONLY WAY" you will continue to be hammered. When you allow others to have their own views and relationship styles, you will find considerably more tolerance for your own.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Don't waste your time, Geoff. He's not going to change his position.

I know... but I can suffer from that same sort of Quixotic tilting at windmills thing.

And once in a rare while the discussion produces a decent result. I don't expect it to change Bloved, but perhaps someone less emotionally invested in that particular dogma will read the discussion and it will spark some tolerance and understanding that human beings are infinitely diverse in their needs and desires.

If one person walks away saying "Wow! I hadn't thought of it like that... Maybe I need to re-think my attitude about ..." then I've done good.

 

[sb2009]

ah, see, geoff isn't really so evil!!

 

[Evil_Geoff]

ah, see, geoff isn't really so evil!!

Shhhhh, sb! You'll ruin my reputation as a fire-breathing, flesh eating, safe-word ignoring, newbie using, sub abusing, soul crushing, casual BDSM player.

OMG, you'll have people thinking I might actual have some "love in my heart."

But casual players can't have any "love in their heart", can they?

But then again, I'm very serious when I play, so I guess that isn't casual. No flippancy here!

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

Ohhh Geoff around!!! *waves and winks at the caring sadist*

Long time no see, Geoff! Hope all is well with you. *BIG HUG*


Some good posts you made here. Well as usualy! hehe

_________________________________________________________________

As for you Bloved.. I do like your stories, but I don't like how you interact with the comunity here. Now after I have read several of your comments in this tread I dont like it. You know if you want someone to respect you, you must respect them as well. I had to learn how to respect people on here and how to comunicate with them without lowering what they love and believe in and yet keep my own opinion on certain things. It's not that hard really.

Theres LOTS of ways how to say your own opinion. You use the way "I am right! - You suck!". No wonder people doesn't like it.

Me, I tend to have diferent opinions from some of the posters here and it's alright. As long as you do not cross the line of civil talking it's alright. I've done some stupid comments on this forum in the past and yes people didnt like it either. They didnt like I judged them, same as you judge them now. Well, I have learn my lesson. I have learn how to respect what they do and like, or at least keep myself from sticking my nose into some threads.

Maybe you should learn too!

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Hey there BiaTcHiNFiRe, good to see you too. {{{{HUG}}}}

Doing well, thank you! I hope live is treating you and yours well.

 

[BLoved]

Ohhh Geoff around!!! *waves and winks at the caring sadist*

Long time no see, Geoff! Hope all is well with you. *BIG HUG*


Some good posts you made here. Well as usualy! hehe

_________________________________________________________________

As for you Bloved.. I do like your stories, but I don't like how you interact with the comunity here. Now after I have read several of your comments in this tread I dont like it. You know if you want someone to respect you, you must respect them as well. I had to learn how to respect people on here and how to comunicate with them without lowering what they love and believe in and yet keep my own opinion on certain things. It's not that hard really.

Theres LOTS of ways how to say your own opinion. You use the way "I am right! - You suck!". No wonder people doesn't like it.

Me, I tend to have diferent opinions from some of the posters here and it's alright. As long as you do not cross the line of civil talking it's alright. I've done some stupid comments on this forum in the past and yes people didnt like it either. They didnt like I judged them, same as you judge them now. Well, I have learn my lesson. I have learn how to respect what they do and like, or at least keep myself from sticking my nose into some threads.

Maybe you should learn too!

I think it's unfortunate that you didn't get to know me well enough to know me for who I am, B.

I think the time has come for me to go.

 

[PhaonsBrother]

I think it's unfortunate that you didn't get to know me well enough to know me for who I am, B.

I think the time has come for me to go.

You stayed well past your welcome the last time you left Lit. This time you didn't just stay past your welcome, you attempted to burn the whole house down. Good riddance, Satan.

 

[warrior queen]

I think the time has come for me to go.

first trully sensible thing you've said.
i'm a little surprised though, that you didn't requote the 'kill yourself' thing at least 3 times before saying that.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

first trully sensible thing you've said.
i'm a little surprised though, that you didn't requote the 'kill yourself' thing at least 3 times before saying that.

You stayed well past your welcome the last time you left Lit. This time you didn't just stay past your welcome, you attempted to burn the whole house down. Good riddance, Satan.

RAGEEEEEEEEEEEE


Ok I will make an exception for this time and say it...

SHUT.THE.FUCK.UP . and leave him alone!!! ffs



And you Bloved stay here please. I love your stories and lots of posts you made here. Just be nice to people here okay? But stay, I like you around. *HUGGS*

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Your entire premise is invalid.

THIS is how you say it Geoff.

 

[Kikori]

And you Bloved stay here please. I love your stories and lots of posts you made here. Just be nice to people here okay? But stay, I like you around. *HUGGS*

While I'm not saying "no" to the idea of you being friends with him, he apparently wants to go and the majority of the forum wants him gone. If he matters enough for you to not want him to go, it's entirely possible for you to establish non-Literotica contact with him.
Like, for examples: Skype, yahoo, MSN, AIM, e-mail, phone calls, whatever forum he registers to next?

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

And you Bloved stay here please. I love your stories and lots of posts you made here. Just be nice to people here okay? But stay, I like you around. *HUGGS*

Whilst I appreciate your efforts, I really do think you're asking too much of him here.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

While I'm not saying "no" to the idea of you being friends with him, he apparently wants to go and the majority of the forum wants him gone. If he matters enough for you to not want him to go, it's entirely possible for you to establish non-Literotica contact with him.
Like, for examples: Skype, yahoo, MSN, AIM, e-mail, phone calls, whatever forum he registers to next?

 

[WriterDom]

Jonah and Jesus both took three days to come back. This is just day one.

 

[BLoved]

Good riddance, Satan.

Funny you should mention that.

I was talking to a friend last night, about events here. During the course of the conversation I explained people have a tendency of putting me on a pedestal, or demonizing me.

No one is supposed to be able to go through what I've been through in my life and not end up bitter, crazy or both.

No one is expected to end up like me.

And so people either compare me with Jesus, or they compare me with Satan.

Either way, I'm not supposed to be just a man, fallible.

And yet that is exactly what I am ... a man who tries his best, who makes mistakes, a man who doesn't give up on himself.

WriterDom compares me with Jesus, PhaonsBrother compares me with Satan, neither are right.

I am simply a man doing the best I can to help those most at risk.

 

[sb2009]

ok wow I get it now. You are SPECIAL. You have endured so much, you must be made of something divine.

Check it out - most everyone has endured some things that push them and stretch them until they either break or figure out a way to use the experience to make the best of thier lives. It's called being human.

 

[BLoved]

And you Bloved stay here please. I love your stories and lots of posts you made here. Just be nice to people here okay? But stay, I like you around. *HUGGS*

B, I've read your PMs as well as those of others. I understand better what you tried to say yesterday.

Unfortunately those who believe in love and who reject the 'ethics' of casual 'bdsm' refuse to post. It is very difficult for me to show any other side of myself than the side that rejects casual 'bdsm' when no one who believes in love wishes to discuss it.

I'm only able to show the side that believes in love through my essays. And you will notice almost no one who shares that view ever posts.

I understand that so much hostility towards those of us who love makes posting difficult. Anyone who has a story out can see how their ratings will drop by expressing agreement with me. No one wants their reputation ruined by a mob who demand obedience, who cannot tolerate even one person who disagrees with them.

And it is not just this forum, it is all of the forums, on all of the bdsm sites.

Casual players know their lack of ethics means they must control the forum if they are to recruit fresh victims. In a fair competition with those of us who love, they will lose every time.

That is why they lie, distort, commit fraud, stalk, and persecute en masse anyone who disagrees with them.

If they are the only ones who post to my discussions, then the only side of me you will see is the side that refuses to be silenced by them.

There is no such thing as "be nice to them and they'll be nice to you".

They will not be satisfied till they have silenced all opposition and asserted their authority to decide what everyone hears.

That is not free speech.

That is not diversity.

That is neither tolerance nor respect for anyone who holds a view that differs from theirs.

To expect that from such as these would be to expect a three-year old to understand calculus.

They are never going to be "nice" as long as their authority is challenged, as long as their way isn't the only way.

Freedom of speech is not won by surrender, nor is it won by wishing others would be nicer.

Freedom of speech is won through perseverance despite the persecution, both by the mob and by the mods.

Either you want to see more discussions about love-based bdsm, or you are happy to see anyone who speaks of it being persecuted till they leave.

Either you support those who bring sanity and diversity to the board, or you don't.

Either you fight for your freedom, or you surrender your freedom.