Was Hitler A Socialist? Of Course, He Was

[ll74]

The IDEAS were definitely Socialist, the ACTIONS taken by Hitler and Mussolini were not. Saying a thing does not make it so.

Ding dong ding

Saying the word socialism does not make one socialist.

 

[stxjimmy]

Ding dong ding

Saying the word socialism does not make one socialist.

Kind of like RINOs

 

[RandyRebecca]

Nice work "Becky"!!!

Now do Putin.



"Becky"



Slava Ukrani!!!

Go and kiss Zelensky's ass, and that of the neonazi Azov battalion while you're there.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Because leftists hate competition, even from their own side?

Using the state to forcibly aid big business completely at workers' expense, whose trade unions have been crushed, is as right-wing as it gets.

Compare it to Stalin's rule in the Soviet Union. Stalin, ruling where socialist revolution was isolated in one country, saw his political power grow as revolutions were defeated in other countries, and he wiped out his political opponents, but the Soviets had a nationalized planned economy where capitalism had been abolished. Stalin represented the party and state bureaucracy, which officially represented the workers, but had usurped them from all political power, whilst still resting on a centrally planned economy. So basically, the Soviet Union under Stalin had a socialist base of the state, but where the workers' democracy of the 1917-1921 period had been destroyed.

Hitler's regime in Germany, was a completely different class base. The Nazis used the state to forcibly aid big business capitalism completely at the expense of the defenseless workers, along with the Nazi ideology of racial and blood purity.

Now, if you use the false definition of left vs. right as "big government vs. small government" you see both these regimes as "big government". But as I said, left-wing means supporting the labor movement over big business (Stalin still rested on a socialist base where capitalism had been abolished, even as he had destroyed workers' democracy), and right-wing means supporting big business over the labor movement (Hitler still rested on a capitalist base, even as he dictated to big business what they must do).

 

[Lazaran]

Go and kiss Zelensky's ass, and that of the neonazi Azov battalion while you're there.

I give "Becky" a compliment, then ask for a similar historical biography of Putin and get attitude.



"Becky"

 

[RandyRebecca]

I give "Becky" a compliment, then ask for a similar historical biography of Putin and get attitude.



"Becky"

I've told you many times before. Putin represents the Russian oligarchy, the capitalist class that came out of 1990s Russia by selling off the nationalized planned economy from the Soviet days. A different section of it from Yeltsin though, with Putin representing the section that thought the 1990s experience under Yeltsin was humiliation for Russia.

And compliment? LOL. All you've done is used attack dog methods since I first posted in the political section here. You support Euromaidan Ukraine, with its neonazis battalions, blindly and without question, and personally attack those who say anything different.

 

[jomar]

It's not Godwin when it's a topic.

Why not? Rightguide just got there in record time

 

[schism666]

Hitler also built a following by blaming one type of person for all the worlds evils and telling them it was okay to hate as long as you hated the right person

Much like the democrats have done with their hate mongering followers, telling them anyone who doesn't vote the way they do is the problem and its okay to hate and attack them. The Butters and Rory's of this forum have gleefully goosestepped their way right down the fascist path right up to Stasi lists and wanting to wall off unvaccinated people in separate cities.

Pure filth, but they'll tell you its the other side that hates. Racist, sexist and phobic as fuck, they project all the hatred they feel onto others. Perfect little Nazi's are todays left. Now throw your right hand in the air and salute your master.

lol, you claim to be an author of sorts?

 

[stxjimmy]

The real truth is that fascism is just a more advanced form of communism. Fascists figured out that the people who owned and managed the “means of production” would do a better job of it than those whose only qualification was party loyalty. They also figured out that if you control the “owners,” you are the real owner.

But the Left needs Hitler to be “of the right” because they can’t divorce themselves from Stalin and Mao, and having all three would just be too much.

Arguing the finer points of the isms is a distraction. It keeps you so busy that you don’t stop to think about a much simpler truth: the only distinction that matters is “power of the state vs freedom of the individual.”

Every type of government can be positioned on that continuum and the closer it is to the state having complete power, the more evil it is. That’s because in every case, the power of the state comes from coercion or the credible threat of coercion.

It doesn’t matter how high minded or altruistic you pretend to be. Every law is ultimately enforced by people with guns who are willing to take your life if you don’t obey. That’s why fewer laws and smaller government is morally superior.

Your definition of fascism needs updating,

Here’s some help: (in 2 parts)

“ According to many scholars, fascism—especially once in power—has historically attacked communism, conservatism, and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the far-right.

Frequently cited as a standard definition by notable scholars, is that of historian Stanley G. Payne. His definition of fascism focuses on three concepts:

1. "Fascist negations" – anti-liberalism, anti-communism, and anti-conservatism.
2. "Fascist goals" – the creation of a nationalist dictatorship to regulate economic structure and to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture, and the expansion of the nation into an empire.
3. "Fascist style" – a political aesthetic of romantic symbolism, mass mobilization, a positive view of violence, and promotion of masculinity, youth, and charismatic authoritarian leadership.

In his book How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them (2018), Jason Stanley defined fascism as "a cult of the leader who promises national restoration in the face of humiliation brought on by supposed communists, Marxists and minorities and immigrants who are supposedly posing a threat to the character and the history of a nation" and that "The leader proposes that only he can solve it and all of his political opponents are enemies or traitors." Stanley says recent global events as of 2020, including the COVID-19 pandemic and the 2020–2022 United States racial unrest, have substantiated his concern about how fascist rhetoric is showing up in politics and policies around the world.

Historian John Lukacs argues that there is no such thing as generic fascism. He claims that Nazism and communism are essentially manifestations of populism, and that states such as Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy are more different from each other than they are similar.

Roger Griffin describes fascism as "a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultranationalism." Griffin describes the ideology as having three core components: "(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism, and (iii) the myth of decadence." In Griffin's view, fascism is "a genuinely revolutionary, trans-class form of anti-liberal, and in the last analysis, anti-conservative nationalism" built on a complex range of theoretical and cultural influences. He distinguishes an inter-war period in which it manifested itself in elite-led but populist "armed party" politics opposing socialism and liberalism, and promising radical politics to rescue the nation from decadence.

Kershaw argues that the difference between fascism and other forms of right-wing authoritarianism in the Interwar period is that the latter generally aimed "to conserve the existing social order", whereas fascism was "revolutionary", seeking to change society and obtain "total commitment" from the population.

In Against the Fascist Creep, Alexander Reid Ross writes regarding Griffin's view: "Following the Cold War and shifts in fascist organizing techniques, a number of scholars have moved toward the minimalist 'new consensus' refined by Roger Griffin: 'the mythic core' of fascism is 'a populist form of palingenetic ultranationalism.' That means that fascism is an ideology that draws on old, ancient, and even arcane myths of racial, cultural, ethnic, and national origins to develop a plan for the 'new man.' Griffin himself explored this 'mythic' or 'eliminable' core of fascism with his concept of post-fascism to explore the continuation of Nazism in the modern era. Additionally, other historians have applied this minimalist core to explore proto-fascist movements.

Cas Mudde and Cristóbal Rovira Kaltwasser argue that although fascism "flirted with populism ... in an attempt to generate mass support", it is better seen as an elitist ideology. They cite in particular its exaltation of the Leader, the race, and the state, rather than the people. They see populism as a "thin-centered ideology" with a "restricted morphology" that necessarily becomes attached to "thick-centered" ideologies such as fascism, liberalism, or socialism. Thus populism can be found as an aspect of many specific ideologies, without necessarily being a defining characteristic of those ideologies. They refer to the combination of populism, authoritarianism and ultranationalism as "a marriage of convenience.” ”

 

[stxjimmy]

Pt 2

“
Robert Paxton says: "[fascism is] a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion."

Roger Eatwell defines fascism as "an ideology that strives to forge social rebirth based on a holistic-national radical Third Way", while Walter Laqueur sees the core tenets of fascism as "self-evident: nationalism; social Darwinism; racialism, the need for leadership, a new aristocracy, and obedience; and the negation of the ideals of the Enlightenment and the French Revolution."

Historian Emilio Gentile has defined fascism as "a modern political phenomenon, revolutionary, anti-liberal and anti-Marxist, organized in a militia party with a totalitarian conception of politics and the State, an activist and anti-theoretical ideology, with a mythical, virilistic and anti-hedonistic foundation, sacralized as a secular religion, which affirms the absolute primacy of the nation, understood as an ethnically homogeneous organic community, hierarchically organized in a corporate state, with a bellicose vocation to the politics of greatness, power and conquest aimed at creating a new order and a new civilization".

Historian and cultural critic Ruth Ben-Ghiat has described fascism as "the original phase of authoritarianism, along with early communism, when a population has undergone huge dislocations or they perceive that there's been changes in society that are very rapid, too rapid for their taste." and added that "These are moments when demagogues appeal. Mussolini was the first to come up after the war, and he promised this enticing mixture of hypernationalism and imperialism, like, 'We're gonna revive the Roman Empire.'"

Racism was a key feature of German fascism, for which the Holocaust was a high priority. According to The Historiography of Genocide, "In dealing with the Holocaust, it is the consensus of historians that Nazi Germany targeted Jews as a race, not as a religious group." Umberto Eco, Kevin Passmore, John Weiss, Ian Adams, and Moyra Grant stress racismas a characteristic component of German fascism. Historian Robert Soucy stated that "Hitler envisioned the ideal German society as a Volksgemeinschaft, a racially unified and hierarchically organized body in which the interests of individuals would be strictly subordinate to those of the nation, or Volk." Kershaw noted that common factors of fascism included "the 'cleansing' of all those deemed not to belong – foreigners, ethnic minorities, 'undesirables'" and belief in its own nation's superiority, even if it was not biological racism like in Nazism. Fascist philosophies vary by application, but remain distinct by one theoretical commonality: all traditionally fall into the far-right sector of any political spectrum, catalyzed by afflicted class identities over conventional social inequities. ”

 

[Lazaran]

I've told you many times before. Putin represents the Russian oligarchy, the capitalist class that came out of 1990s Russia by selling off the nationalized planned economy from the Soviet days. A different section of it from Yeltsin though, with Putin representing the section that thought the 1990s experience under Yeltsin was humiliation for Russia.

And compliment? LOL. All you've done is used attack dog methods since I first posted in the political section here. You support Euromaidan Ukraine, with its neonazis battalions, blindly and without question, and personally attack those who say anything different.

Yeah, I wasn’t actually complimenting "Becky".



Also:

No one thinks the US, the EU, or ALL Ukrainians were / are choirboys in the effort to bring TRUE DEMOCRACY AND INDEPENDENCE to ALL of Ukraine, but rather, that Putin and Russia were / are exponentially worse - as they have proven / shown themselves to be.

To borrow a quote from Churchill - “If Putin invaded hell, I would at least make a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.”

The reason "Becky" gets labeled a Russian sympathizer / operative, is because they consistently vilify America, the EU, and Ukrainians, while minimizing Putin’s and Russia’s atrocities in Ukraine and elsewhere.

Hope that ^ helps.



"Becky"

 

[ll74]

Lmao

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Your definition of fascism needs updating,

Here’s some help: (in 2 parts)

“ According to many scholars, fascism—especially once in power—has historically attacked communism, conservatism, and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the far-right.

Frequently cited as a standard definition by notable scholars, is that of historian Stanley G. Payne. His definition of fascism focuses on three concepts:

1. "Fascist negations" – anti-liberalism, anti-communism, and anti-conservatism.
2. "Fascist goals" – the creation of a nationalist dictatorship to regulate economic structure and to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture, and the expansion of the nation into an empire.
3. "Fascist style" – a political aesthetic of romantic symbolism, mass mobilization, a positive view of violence, and promotion of masculinity, youth, and charismatic authoritarian leadership.

Well done! With cites even!

 

[stxjimmy]

Well done! With cites even!

Thank you

 

[RandyRebecca]

Yeah, I wasn’t actually complimenting "Becky".



Also:

No one thinks the US, the EU, or ALL Ukrainians were / are choirboys in the effort to bring TRUE DEMOCRACY AND INDEPENDENCE to ALL of Ukraine, but rather, that Putin and Russia were / are exponentially worse - as they have proven / shown themselves to be.

To borrow a quote from Churchill - “If Putin invaded hell, I would at least make a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.”

The reason "Becky" gets labeled a Russian sympathizer / operative, is because they consistently vilify America, the EU, and Ukrainians, while minimizing Putin’s and Russia’s atrocities in Ukraine and elsewhere.

Hope that ^ helps.



"Becky"

When are you going to get it through your thick head that I'm not a Putin supporter, and I'm not any of the things that your paranoia suggests me as being? Somebody cannot be both a socialist (as I am) and a Putin supporter (Putin is a capitalist gangster, i.e. anti-socialist, who regularly attacks Lenin and the Bolsheviks). You only divert attention with the McCarthyite scaremongering because you can't argue with me politically, only fling personal insults. Hillary Clinton did the same when Donald Trump beat her in 2016, basically that her loss was nothing to do with her or her actions at all (like treating blue collar workers bad, and being a warmonger), so she basically said "Just look over there, at Russia". You do the same tactics. Pathetic. Grow up.

I've got nothing to hide with my views. I'm a socialist and Marxist. Putin is a political opponent. I assume that the authorities are watching me anyway, as they do to all people and groups who don't conform. I'm on the correct side of history, as upcoming events will show.

By the way, Winston Churchill was pretty terrible with quotes.

I clearly didn’t realize you know everything and yours is the only possible interpretation.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

My pleasure. It's the correct interpretation. Have a nice evening.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I

And compliment? LOL. All you've done is used attack dog methods since I first posted in the political section here. You support Euromaidan Ukraine, with its neonazis battalions, blindly and without question, and personally attack those who say anything different.

Which neo-nazi's ? seems like there are a bunch...

I'm sure you know who Pavel Gubarev is, right?

If not, I'll leave you a hint....

Gubarev was a member of the neo-Nazi Russian National Unity paramilitary group, that later took part in the War in Donbas on the side of pro-Russian forces

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Gubarev

 

[Lazaran]

Which neo-nazi's ? seems like there are a bunch...

I'm sure you know who Pavel Gubarev is, right?

If not, I'll leave you a hint....

Gubarev was a member of the neo-Nazi Russian National Unity paramilitary group, that later took part in the War in Donbas on the side of pro-Russian forces

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Gubarev

"Becky" / "Buffy" doesn’t get it.

They can easily and eagerly recite a running list of pretty inconclusive, unverifiable conspiracy theories involving US involvement in Ukraine and the "Ukrainian nazi army", and they can passionately make the case against the "evil American government" and western capitalism, but challenge them to apply that same level of scrutiny and critique to Putin and Russia, and all you get is "I don’t support Putin".



Your easily produced example of "the Russian nazi army" seems to have "conveniently" escaped "Becky’s " / "Buffy’s" powerful investigative skills. So weird…



Maybe when "Becky" / "Buffy" can eagerly and easily recite a running list of Putin’s and Russia’s proven interference and atrocities in FREE Ukraine and elsewhere (The Wagner group anyone?) , and passionately make the case against Putin’s and Russia’s evil government, decent, intelligent people will take them seriously and refrain from labeling them Russian sympathizers / operatives.



"Becky" / “Buffy"



Slava Ukraini!!!

 

[Fuzzy1975]

"Becky" / "Buffy" doesn’t get it.

They can easily and eagerly recite a running list of pretty inconclusive, unverifiable conspiracy theories involving US involvement in Ukraine and the "Ukrainian nazi army", and they can passionately make the case against the "evil American government" and western capitalism, but challenge them to apply that same level of scrutiny and critique to Putin and Russia, and all you get is "I don’t support Putin".



Your easily produced example of "the Russian nazi army" seems to have "conveniently" escaped "Becky’s " / "Buffy’s" powerful investigative skills. So weird…



Maybe when "Becky" / "Buffy" can eagerly and easily recite a running list of Putin’s and Russia’s proven interference and atrocities in FREE Ukraine and elsewhere (The Wagner group anyone?) , and passionately make the case against Putin’s and Russia’s evil government, decent, intelligent people will take them seriously and refrain from labeling them Russian sympathizers / operatives.



"Becky" / “Buffy"



Slava Ukraini!!!

They claim they don't support Putin, and then they blame Biden for the war. Like really wtf? How does logic work?

 

[Lazaran]

They claim they don't support Putin, and then they blame Biden for the war. Like really wtf? How does logic work?

Exactly.

Side question:

How the fuck did you respond to my post the second I posted it?

That ^ is weird, and I’ve had it happen before.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Exactly.

Side question:

How the fuck did you respond to my post the second I posted it?

That ^ is weird, and I’ve had it happen before.

mine shows a time delay of a couple mins.

 

[Lazaran]

mine shows a time delay of a couple mins.

It just happened again.

Is my final draft exactly the same as the comment you responded to??

Sometimes I edit pre-post,

Something very weird is going on…

 

[Fuzzy1975]

It just happened again.

Is my final draft exactly the same as the comment you responded to??

Sometimes I edit pre-post,

Something very weird is going on…

Weird on Lit???? Say it ain't so....

 

[RandyRebecca]

Which neo-nazi's ? seems like there are a bunch...

Azov, Aidar, the Right Sector. Look them up. Those types were our enemies in WW2 and the Soviets were our allies.

Do you see Stepan Bandera as a "hero of Ukraine"?

 

[RandyRebecca]

They claim they don't support Putin, and then they blame Biden for the war. Like really wtf? How does logic work?

Because it's not either/or. Surely even you can work that one out. Biden and Putin are both capitalists and political opponents of socialism and the working class. Democratic warmongers are so politically bankrupt that they can only deal with opponents of their warmongering by smearing us as "Putin supporters".

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Azov, Aidar, the Right Sector. Look them up.

Do you know who Pavel is? If not did you look him up? ( for all the shit you post about this, if you don't know who the fuck he is....that is very telling)

Those types were our enemies in WW2 and the Soviets were our allies.

The Soviets were not our allies. They were our tool.

Don't forget the only reason they were "allies" is because Hitler turned on them. Up till that point they were just as guilty and complicit as the Nazis.

Do you see Stepan Bandera as a "hero of Ukraine"?

Who cares the guy died almost 50 years ago. Has nothing to do with today in Ukraine, any more than Stalin does. Putin supported the 2014 invasion,and he started the war in 2022. Those are facts, and nothing you can do or say or whine about can change that.