Why do you cede or accept control outside the bedroom?

[JMohegan]

An interesting note is that she talked a lot about how early in any relationship, there's lots of fumbling while they try to figure out who likes what. No one seems to have the upper hand or want to just take charge. I remember those kinds of relationships, and not with any level of fondness. There's lots of bumping into each other as you both try to move or touch. And if as a submissive, you try to allow him to control things, he fumbles even more because he either doesn't know what to do or he thinks you're not enjoying yourself. So you tend to stick with missionary - which isn't necessarily a bad thing - and he ultimately gets his rocks off, rolls over and goes to sleep. To me, that's vanilla.

To me, that's just ghastly.

Seriously, though, this does seem to fit the "no one's taking charge, no erotic pain" definition of vanilla sex that I usually employ.

I still find myself wondering how many people actually have sex this way. Surely there can't be very many.

 

[JMohegan]

Maybe you all can give your opinion on this. While I do cede control in the bedroom, I have always felt resentful at not being able to express my passion or horniness if you will, with my Dom. I tend to get a little aggressive and really want to go with "the flow" of what my body is feeling, but Master curbs my behaviour all the time. To say the least it can get very frustrating for me at times and I really don't see his point in doing this, afterall he is the one who gets me feeling this way. Why not just sit back... let me do my thing and enjoy my sexually frenzied response? He doesn't allow any sexually dominating positions...argghh!
I think it's cruel and mean....and just plain sadistic.

My opinion is that if you have ceded control in the bedroom, it is his right to decide what goes on in your bed.

If you are resentful and have respectfully explained your feelings to him, yet he still refuses to ever let you climb on top or do whatever it is you want to do, then you have two choices.

Terminate the relationship and find someone who will give you a freer rein in the bedroom, or stay where you are. That choice is up to you.

 

[JMohegan]

Yet, in my heart, I feel it is rather a *divine right to rule* kind of thing,

Ohhh, I like that phrase.

 

[cati]

While I respect your reply JM, I would hardly make such a rash decison as to leaving or staying in a relationship because I couldn't "climb on top". My post was said half in jest, hence my using the smiley face.

 

[BeachGurl2]

To me, that's just ghastly.

Seriously, though, this does seem to fit the "no one's taking charge, no erotic pain" definition of vanilla sex that I usually employ.

I still find myself wondering how many people actually have sex this way. Surely there can't be very many.

Ghastly, yes, I'll agree with that assessment.

As to how many people have sex this way, I'm guessing that here in the States, the percent must be relatively high. Which is a sad commentary on just how prudish Americans are. And that is quite sad, in my opinion. If people would relax a little and actually have a little fun with sex, our entire political structure might change.

 

[Bandit58]

Maybe you all can give your opinion on this. While I do cede control in the bedroom, I have always felt resentful at not being able to express my passion or horniness if you will, with my Dom. I tend to get a little aggressive and really want to go with "the flow" of what my body is feeling, but Master curbs my behaviour all the time. To say the least it can get very frustrating for me at times and I really don't see his point in doing this, afterall he is the one who gets me feeling this way. Why not just sit back... let me do my thing and enjoy my sexually frenzied response? He doesn't allow any sexually dominating positions...argghh!
I think it's cruel and mean....and just plain sadistic.

Master Gil can be very frustrating too cati He gets me to the point where I'm just about to cum and then He stops....over and over, until I'm almost like Linda Blair in The Exorcist (without the headspin!). But it's all worth it when I'm finally allowed to cum (after anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour or more).

Regarding the "sexually dominating positions" - I'm often told to get on top and ride Him. It's visually stimulating for Him (plus easier on His back if I'm doing all the work). He can reach to spank my thighs, or His thumb can find my clit, or His fingers can pinch my nipples. He's still in control though, He guides my speed and hip rotation

 

[BiBunny]

Regarding the "sexually dominating positions" - I'm often told to get on top and ride Him. It's visually stimulating for Him (plus easier on His back if I'm doing all the work). He can reach to spank my thighs, or His thumb can find my clit, or His fingers can pinch my nipples. He's still in control though, He guides my speed and hip rotation

Yep, same here. I've never been entirely comfortable being on top, so I think part of his motivation is to make me more comfortable with it. The other parts are equal enjoyment of that discomfort (damn sadist) and enjoyment of the pain or pleasure he can give me when his hands are free to do something other than support his weight. Oh, yeah, and he also likes to make me stay up there for an hour or more. I think he likes it when I finally collapse on his chest from utter exhaustion!

 

[JMohegan]

While I respect your reply JM, I would hardly make such a rash decison as to leaving or staying in a relationship because I couldn't "climb on top". My post was said half in jest, hence my using the smiley face.

Ahh, my apologies, Cati.

This is the second time I have seen you mention being unhappy about the same problem.

That's why I assumed you were serious in asking what to do about it here.

 

[FurryFury]

Yep, same here. I've never been entirely comfortable being on top, so I think part of his motivation is to make me more comfortable with it. The other parts are equal enjoyment of that discomfort (damn sadist) and enjoyment of the pain or pleasure he can give me when his hands are free to do something other than support his weight. Oh, yeah, and he also likes to make me stay up there for an hour or more. I think he likes it when I finally collapse on his chest from utter exhaustion!

I'm not an "on top" kind of girl either as I prefer to be on my knees with him coming at me doggie style, given a choice. He likes it though and I love it when he takes control of my hips in that position to satisfy himself.

Fury

 

[cati]

Oh JM... I hadn't realized, perhaps things are worse than I thought. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

 

[A Desert Rose]

To me, that's just ghastly.

Seriously, though, this does seem to fit the "no one's taking charge, no erotic pain" definition of vanilla sex that I usually employ.

I still find myself wondering how many people actually have sex this way. Surely there can't be very many.

I believe that someone's always taking charge, even in vanilla (I hate that word... I prefer traditional) sex. And sometimes (usually, in traditional sex) the power exchange goes back and forth during the course of the act.

Sex is a power exchange. It all only depends on how much power one is willing to take from or to give to the other. And how that power exchange is exhibited.

 

[cati]

Actually I don't really care for being on top either, it was just an example. I'm not that limber anymore...shrugs.

 

[FurryFury]

LOL!

My LEAST favorite of ALL positions is on top, facing his toes. I call that one the beached whale position. Ugh.

Fury

 

[BiBunny]

LOL!

My LEAST favorite of ALL positions is on top, facing his toes. I call that one the beached whale position. Ugh.

Fury

I am SO glad that I'm not the only one who feels that way. Besides, feet are not the sexiest thing to look at while having sex, IMO.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I tend to be the dominant person in any given situation. Not because I "want" to be. Because I feel the need to be. And because I'm willing to accept responsibilty where others are not. So they often happily defer, if for no other reason than sheer laziness! LOL.

But in the bedroom, I don't entertain any man who isn't more dominant than myself.

Ever.

I'd rather go 10 years without sex than spend 10 minutes with a beta or omega male.

(You think I'm kidding.....)

 

[SpectreT]

Let's take our discussion of what's Kinked and what's Mundane over to another thread; I've derailed this one enough. I'll start the thread in a few minutes, including snippets from here if needed.

 

[shy slave]

I have been following this thread with great interest and enjoyed reading all the discussions, both from the original question and the spin offs.

Why I cede or accept control outside the bedroom is complex and yet simple.

The simple answer is because I want to, it fulfils me in a way that this description of sex by beachgurl never could manage. Yet I tried again and again to fit myself into that box that KC talked about earlier in the thread.

An interesting note is that she talked a lot about how early in any relationship, there's lots of fumbling while they try to figure out who likes what. No one seems to have the upper hand or want to just take charge. I remember those kinds of relationships, and not with any level of fondness. There's lots of bumping into each other as you both try to move or touch. And if as a submissive, you try to allow him to control things, he fumbles even more because he either doesn't know what to do or he thinks you're not enjoying yourself. So you tend to stick with missionary - which isn't necessarily a bad thing - and he ultimately gets his rocks off, rolls over and goes to sleep. To me, that's vanilla.

Ironically this part of a post by cati sums up relationships I have had pre-BDSM. I was aggressive in the bedroom, demanding of the men I met and very clear about what I wanted. I was once called 'high maintenance' in terms of needing/demanding sex. Yet I continually chose men who were not aggressive and were nice ordinary people who wanted a nice ordinary sex life. Most men I met were a mix of stunned and surprised at how I acted but most allowed me to take control, although it was clear afterwards they had not felt comfortable with my behaviour.
I now know I acted in this way because I wanted them to take that control from me and prove they could cope with, or manage, me.

While I do cede control in the bedroom, I have always felt resentful at not being able to express my passion or horniness if you will, with my Dom. I tend to get a little aggressive and really want to go with "the flow" of what my body is feeling,

The more complex answer is that once I discovered the existance of BDSM and particularly D/s, I knew that ceding control within the confines of sex would not be enough. Hence I chose my name before really understanding my own concept of the word 'slave'

Ceding control out of the bedroom can be a form of relaxation for me. I have no idea how far into micro-management he could take me (I suspect I would bitch about it, but cede in the end), but I acknowledge it is nice not to be the person always making a decision as well as always knowing what is expected from me.
It takes alot of the stress out the relationship.
Someone said earlier about being the one to get up and get the midnight glass of water, I agree that is serving, but for me, it has an added dimension of knowing that is my role; therefore it takes the stress of 'who turn it is' out of the equation.
I actually feel uncomfortable if he does things like this, but at times I am so tired I am glad when he does. It becomes a double edged guilt/thankful sword.

I don't cope well with compromise, I like my own way. Several people tell me I should be a Domme but that would never work for me for a number of reasons.
Just because I like my own way doesn't mean I should get it. I know my own behaviour, when I get my own way most of the time, I become selfish and spoilt. I then take advantage of the other persons' good nature (not good qualities in a Domme).

Ceding control out of the bedroom gives me a feeling of security and safety. I know what is expected of me and I know him well enough to trust him not to abuse that control.

I admit that the level of control he currently has over my life is minimal, we live apart and therefore day-to-day control is not always practical. I need to make decisions every day, I can't call him every few minutes to ask what I should do or say nor has he ever indicated he wants me to. On some issues I ask for his opinion or thoughts prior to making a decision and some things I do and then talk to him later about.

I am curious about how things will change when we are not living in different countries, and what level of control he will want over particular areas of day-to-day life; at the moment that all seems very abstract in my mind.

If food and water as part of life are a 'need' then, for me, D/s outside the bedroom is a 'want' not a 'need.'
I could live without D/s in my life, like most things I would learn to adjust and adapt, but my life is more fulfilled by giving him control over aspects of me and my behaviour.

 

[JMohegan]

The more complex answer is that once I discovered the existance of BDSM and particularly D/s, I knew that ceding control within the confines of sex would not be enough. Hence I chose my name before really understanding my own concept of the word 'slave'

Ceding control out of the bedroom can be a form of relaxation for me. I have no idea how far into micro-management he could take me (I suspect I would bitch about it, but cede in the end), but I acknowledge it is nice not to be the person always making a decision as well as always knowing what is expected from me.
It takes alot of the stress out the relationship.
Someone said earlier about being the one to get up and get the midnight glass of water, I agree that is serving, but for me, it has an added dimension of knowing that is my role; therefore it takes the stress of 'who turn it is' out of the equation.
I actually feel uncomfortable if he does things like this, but at times I am so tired I am glad when he does. It becomes a double edged guilt/thankful sword.

I don't cope well with compromise, I like my own way. Several people tell me I should be a Domme but that would never work for me for a number of reasons.
Just because I like my own way doesn't mean I should get it. I know my own behaviour, when I get my own way most of the time, I become selfish and spoilt. I then take advantage of the other persons' good nature (not good qualities in a Domme).

Ceding control out of the bedroom gives me a feeling of security and safety. I know what is expected of me and I know him well enough to trust him not to abuse that control.

You put a lot of thought and time into this response, Shy. I would be grateful for it under any circumstances, but am doubly so since I know your free time is limited these days. Thank you very much.

This is a great response, not just because of its depth, but also because it touches on so many aspects of control that are viewed as positive by those who embrace D/s.

"It takes alot of the stress out the relationship."

"I don't cope well with compromise"

"Ceding control out of the bedroom gives me a feeling of security and safety."

"I know what is expected of me"

In my corner of the world, independence and self-sufficiency are valued very, very highly. The idea of one adult overtly controlling another is viewed with general suspicion, bordering on alarm in many cases.

In conversations with non-D/s people, I've found that the idea of control within the bedroom is easy for most to accept. Control outside the bedroom is much harder for most to swallow as a healthy form of personal interaction.

Perhaps for this reason, I tried (in the beginning of my D/s career) to justify my interest in non-bedroom control as a form of foreplay. But no one can stay aroused 24/7, and it eventually became obvious to me that control itself is what I need to be happy in a personal relationship. Not just because control is hot (though for me, it is), but because without overt control in some areas of my personal life, I become irritable, unhappy, and a general pain in the ass.

One thing that I notice about your response is the absence of a reason implying a need for a partner who is superior to you in some way. Contrast this with comments one often hears from submissives who say they seek the wisdom and maturity that a Dom's guidance provides, or submissives who express a need for something like character improvement to be achieved through a Dom's control.

I see a clear difference between saying:

1 - I have a non-bedroom need to cede control, but will only relinquish it to a person whom I respect, trust, etc.

vs.

2 - I have a non-bedroom need to be guided/shaped/etc. by a person who possesses character traits or experiences that are superior to my own.

I wonder if you see these as different, and whether you perceive (as I do) that submissives generally tend to fall in one or the other of these groups? (That is a question addressed not just to you, Shy, but to anyone who would like to answer.)

If food and water as part of life are a 'need' then, for me, D/s outside the bedroom is a 'want' not a 'need.'
I could live without D/s in my life, like most things I would learn to adjust and adapt, but my life is more fulfilled by giving him control over aspects of me and my behaviour.

Point taken about the difference between want and need.

When I say that I need control in a personal relationship, what I really mean is that I need control in order to be happy in the same.

 

[A Desert Rose]

... I see a clear difference between saying:

1 - I have a non-bedroom need to cede control, but will only relinquish it to a person whom I respect, trust, etc.

vs.

2 - I have a non-bedroom need to be guided/shaped/etc. by a person who possesses character traits or experiences that are superior to my own.

I wonder if you see these as different, and whether you perceive (as I do) that submissives generally tend to fall in one or the other of these groups? (That is a question addressed not just to you, Shy, but to anyone who would like to answer.)

Obviously I'm not shy and I wouldn't touch this for any thing.

If I ever tried to catagorize submissives into one or another group, I'm sure if there ever is a bdsm Litogether, you would all burn me in effigy for the evening's entertainment.

Once again, it's all subjective, from start to finish. My view of submission, dominance, or what a perfect date would be, are nothing like anyone else's and furthermore, have no impact on anyone.

 

[JMohegan]

Obviously I'm not shy and I wouldn't touch this for any thing.

If I ever tried to catagorize submissives into one or another group, I'm sure if there ever is a bdsm Litogether, you would all burn me in effigy for the evening's entertainment.

Once again, it's all subjective, from start to finish. My view of submission, dominance, or what a perfect date would be, are nothing like anyone else's and furthermore, have no impact on anyone.

As with all of my requests for opinions, the purpose of my question was solely to spark discussion with those who find the subject engaging, and are interested in an exchange of ideas on the same.

As for burning in effigy.... hmmm. It isn't really my style. But just to be technically correct, I'll point out that physical presence isn't necessary for such a thing. See effigy.

 

[shy slave]

Obviously I'm not shy and I wouldn't touch this for any thing.

If I ever tried to catagorize submissives into one or another group, I'm sure if there ever is a bdsm Litogether, you would all burn me in effigy for the evening's entertainment.

Once again, it's all subjective, from start to finish. My view of submission, dominance, or what a perfect date would be, are nothing like anyone else's and furthermore, have no impact on anyone.

ADR I have a confession....I am not 'shy' either lol

I don't want to derail JM's thread but the idea of burning you as an effigy has me grinning like an insane woman at the screen.
I have images of you making sure the hair on the said effigy is perfect before the bonfire begins (I can't help it, I have a sick sense of humour)

I do have a question though, as you have not told me what your perfect date is how can I be 100% sure it is not like anyone else's?

Go on, post it, no-one will read it, honest

 

[JMohegan]

ADR I have a confession....I am not 'shy' either lol

Ya know, I meant to ask you about this, earlier. LOL...

Hence I chose my name before really understanding my own concept of the word 'slave'

And your concept of the word 'shy' developed at what point, exactly?

 

[shy slave]

One thing that I notice about your response is the absence of a reason implying a need for a partner who is superior to you in some way. Contrast this with comments one often hears from submissives who say they seek the wisdom and maturity that a Dom's guidance provides, or submissives who express a need for something like character improvement to be achieved through a Dom's control.

I see a clear difference between saying:

1 - I have a non-bedroom need to cede control, but will only relinquish it to a person whom I respect, trust, etc.

vs.

2 - I have a non-bedroom need to be guided/shaped/etc. by a person who possesses character traits or experiences that are superior to my own.

I wonder if you see these as different, and whether you perceive (as I do) that submissives generally tend to fall in one or the other of these groups? (That is a question addressed not just to you, Shy, but to anyone who would like to answer.)

Point taken about the difference between want and need.

When I say that I need control in a personal relationship, what I really mean is that I need control in order to be happy in the same.

As ADR said categorising BDSM is dangerous waters, there are so many shades of grey, but nevertheless I am the lone voice who likes loosely shaped labels.

You are right, I did not go into the superior aspects of a partner.
I have dated all kinds of men, from idiots to intelligent, plus every shade of grey inbetween.

I discovered some unpleasant character traits about myself during that journey.

1. I like to date men who are intellectually brighter than me.

2. I like to date men who have a bigger picture of the world than I have.

3. I don't like to date men who are eons above me intellectually, I hate feeling vulnerable in that way and I get bored always being out-of-step with them.

4. I don't like dating men who have a smaller view of the world than I have.

5. I feel most comfortable with men who are a mix of 1 & 2.

6. I test men out and goad them until they outmaneuver me verbally, then I relax.

Not pleasant reading nor pleasant self-knowledge, but very honest.

It is impossible for me to relinquish control to someone I can manipulate every time, on every occasion. I have had that, it turned into an unwarranted hero style worship; which made me very uncomfortable.

I have only ceded outside the bedroom control to two men.

Each time manifested in a different way to each other.

The first focused on my dress and make-up leaning heavily towards micro-management. The focus on small issues was tiresome, I could not relax for worrying about small issues. It made seeing him quite stressful.

Andante is less interested in micro-management. If I wear something he dislikes he tells me he dislikes it, he does not tell me not to wear it; he just gives his view. Then of course I don't wear it....
He is interested in the decisions I have to make, issues that affect my mental well-being and he is good at working through my ramblings and breaking issues down. In that way I see my psychological well-being is looked after, which to me, is a bigger issue than what make-up (if any) I am wearing.

Because the type of control was different with both of them, I understand the dislike people have of labels.
Before giving up control you need to know what the other person deems as 'control.' Someone who wanted every small aspect of their life managed would be driven crazy by Andante and feel lost.
Yet he has control over my life, moreover if he decided to micro-manage me more closely I would agree. My agreement would be because I trust and respect him above all else. That respect comes from seeing how is as a person in all aspects of his life and in all moods.

I do struggle when people state 'He is my Master/Dom/Whatever' yet they have yet to see that person at their best and worst. Respect comes from seeing a person at their worst and still being able to see them as they really are, as well as liking what they see.

After all that rambling I guess I would say your first option fits into my thinking.
Respect is the key to how I interact with anyone.
Respect for him above all others is what makes the difference as to why I cede control out of the bedroom to him.

 

[shy slave]

Ya know, I meant to ask you about this, earlier. LOL...

And your concept of the word 'shy' developed at what point, exactly?

Ummmm.....

If I was American I would plead the Fifth Amendment on this lol

As it is I chose the word 'shy' because initially I was shy about certain things, like sharing fantasies, wants, wishes, etc.

Actually I still have that issue with everyone except one person (now I wonder who that could be ), but even so when he reminds me of things I asked for very early in this relationship I still squirm with embarrassment lol.

SO, I am shy, just not in a labelled concept of shy

 

[JMohegan]

Ummmm.....

If I was American I would plead the Fifth Amendment on this lol

Just for future reference, any time I ask a question followed by the goofy tongue guy, it means I don't actually expect a serious response.

However, I understood and appreciated what you wrote. That's the second time on this thread that I've been reminded of someone else.