❓ PLP Inquires❓

[tnman03]

Lies have nuance. How I respond to them depends on those nuances. I generally divide lies into four broad categories.

1. Lies people tell themselves. Though I might be incidentally involved, the intention of the lie is to convince themselves of something. Those ones I just note and depending on the relationship might delicately address them at some point - though honestly I usually let them go.

2. Tactful lies - these are the lies people tell, not with the intention to deceive, but to avoid talking about certain things, answering certain questions, etc.. Again, these ones I just note and let slide. We never know what's going on inside of someone, so I tend to cut them a lot of slack.

3. Strategic lies - these are the lies people tell to obtain something they value or to avoid the loss of something they value. These are always something I follow up on, especially if it involves me. I seek to determine the motive. People can (and do) tell strategic lies from good intentions and that intention makes all the difference. These are the most common lies you encounter in a relationship - they're afraid the truth with prevent them from attaining what they value.

4. Finally, there are delusional lies. This are the lies people tell and they're not even consciously aware they're lying. Depending on the delusion, these can be the most dangerous lies.

I don't automatically cut anyone off because they lie - personally, I can attest that everyone lies to one degree of the other, depending on the circumstances. My response to the lie depends on the circumstance and motivation and the vast majority of time I just take note of them - if they line up with "intent to deceive for personal gain" I'll fire a warning shot across their bow, but you only get one warning shot.

Excellent response and also well thought out. I'm in agreement with this outlook.

 

[AveryElle]

Would love to see more of the ‘regulars’ answer this one. It’s an interesting question.

 

[Dribble]

Would love to see more of the ‘regulars’ answer this one. It’s an interesting question.

But would they answer it honestly?

 

[Mei5ter]

03.17.21

Liar, liar, pants on fire...

How do you/would you handle it if you found out your partner had lied? How does it differ from a big lie to a small lie? How do you determine the lie girth?

You see the problem here is that one's pants do not in fact spontaneously combust when one perpetrates a deliberate falsehood.


Wouldn't it be so much more fun if this did actually happen? Or would we all die from underwear-related asbestosis?

 

[AveryElle]

I think if people’s pants did catch on fire when they lied, a lot more people here would be outed and then divorced.

 

[PrettyLilPussy19]

I really love Paul's answer and thr acknowledgement of nuance.

Ultimately it depends on the situation and the people. A lie with a sincere apology and explanation can result in a stronger relationship when hashed out. I agree that a pattern of lying for no good reason or people who don't even understand that they are lying is a much more serious problem.

So I guess I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said. However, I do think it's interesting what people chose claim to have the moral high ground over.

 

[Dirt_in_the_Ground]

I really love Paul's answer and thr acknowledgement of nuance.

Ultimately it depends on the situation and the people. A lie with a sincere apology and explanation can result in a stronger relationship when hashed out. I agree that a pattern of lying for no good reason or people who don't even understand that they are lying is a much more serious problem.

So I guess I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said. However, I do think it's interesting what people chose claim to have the moral high ground over.

Everybody lies. If we didn’t, life would be unlivable—we’d probably hate and kill each other even more than we do. Sometimes lies are a good thing that protect both the teller and the listener from uncomfortable truths that are ultimately trivial. But I’m thinking that there are lies of commission and lies of omission. Things simply left unsaid can be sadder than lies actually told.

 

[Mei5ter]

Everybody lies. If we didn’t, life would be unlivable—we’d probably hate and kill each other even more than we do. Sometimes lies are a good thing that protect both the teller and the listener from uncomfortable truths that are ultimately trivial. But I’m thinking that there are lies of commission and lies of omission. Things simply left unsaid can be sadder than lies actually told.

You forgot lies of emission. As in, "Who farted? No way could I have made that stink." Or, "No, it's not my fault that we need the plunger - I didn't even go in there!"

 

[Dirt_in_the_Ground]

You forgot lies of emission. As in, "Who farted? No way could I have made that stink." Or, "No, it's not my fault that we need the plunger - I didn't even go in there!"

Har! That changes my whole philosophy!

 

[AveryElle]

I don’t know about moral high ground but ‘everyone lies’ gets a lot of people on the other end of a lie really heartbroken.

I do think some lies can help improve a relationship once discovered (faking orgasms, for example). That’s a good point.

 

[Dirt_in_the_Ground]

I don’t know about moral high ground but ‘everyone lies’ gets a lot of people on the other end of a lie really heartbroken.

I do think some lies can help improve a relationship once discovered (faking orgasms, for example). That’s a good point.

Or, “Your butt looks great in those jeans.” That can save a marriage.

 

[PrettyLilPussy19]

I don’t know about moral high ground but ‘everyone lies’ gets a lot of people on the other end of a lie really heartbroken.

I do think some lies can help improve a relationship once discovered (faking orgasms, for example). That’s a good point.

I think assuming "lying = divorce = heartbreak" and any form of "open relationship = honesty = happiness" a false equivalency. Speaking entirely for myself anyway.

I think intention is everything. Why someone is lying in incredibly important.

 

[Dribble]

For some reason...I think there should be a link to the "How Big Can You Handle" thread here

 

[AveryElle]

I think assuming "lying = divorce = heartbreak" and any form of "open relationship = honesty = happiness" a false equivalency. Speaking entirely for myself anyway.

I think intention is everything. Why someone is lying in incredibly important.

I can only speak from my experience (including knowing people from kink club settings who end up on the lying end of divorce).

Why someone is lying matters, but to whom does it matter more? Is it a case of it being justified to avoid hurting someone’s feelings (a reason people often fake orgasms, for example again)? Or to avoid a confrontation that would hurt a relationship and change a dynamic when kids are involved? Both make sense but if you lie to someone for years - say you’re faking orgasms often for years and finally they find out - wouldn’t it be better to discuss the problems that made you lie like you said? I’m absolutely not judging - I find it fascinating - I would just love people to chime in with when I’m they think it’s justified and when it isn’t. What intentions make it ok?

I’ve been lied to and cheated on and everything in between. In no way do I think open relationships = honesty = happiness. Especially with marriage, there is far more nuance required to make it last. Not that I know what makes one last other than shared bank accounts and property titles!

Thanks for posting this question. I find what people will and won’t forgive and the psychology behind it really interesting.

 

[AveryElle]

I have friends with open relationships, and there is shady stuff, incomplete truths, and I have family who is rocking it.
And the same for “traditional” relationships.
One thing I’ve leaned in my old age? No one knows what goes on behind closed doors of someone else’s relationship.

Absolutely! Some of the worst liars I know are poly.

I have a former friend whose now-husband lied about his grandma dying to get bereavement leave at work. She died years prior. No. Just no. Officially the worst lie I have ever heard.

 

[Dribble]

I’m absolutely not judging - I find it fascinating - I would just love people to chime in with when I’m they think it’s justified and when it isn’t. What intentions make it ok?

People don't justify their actions unless they are trying to convince others or themselves they are right. If I catch myself justifying my choice...or action...I can guarantee I am in the wrong 100% of the time. I don't need to justify why I don't want liars in my life. I don't. What others want, or are willing to put up with, is their choice. I do not think I am better. I know what I need in my life.

Here is the thing about honesty. It changes. I can tell you where I am with how I feel today, and be 100% honest. Then come back tomorrow and tell you i don't know what the fuck i was thinking yesterday...this is how I really feel...and still be 100% honest both times. This is not lying. My understanding changed. My perspective changed.

Here is an example of lying. Your methadone use has been going on too long...it controls every decision you make in your life...it comes first. I know...I am working on it...we are reducing the dosage. I go back and look at the dosage rate two weeks later...it isn't 175, but now 195. That is a lie. Tick tock tick tock. It isn't my fault I don't believe anything you say. Lies...build into more lies. Always.

 

[AveryElle]

Good points, dribble. I also think people insulate themselves from how the longer a lie goes on, the worse it is for the person you’re lying to. ‘I’m not hurting their feelings!’ If you’ve been cheating for two weeks vs two years? I think that would be utterly heartbreaking. I was cheated on and lied to, and those who who kept the lie going were the ones who hurt the most. YMMV.

 

[Dribble]

Good points, dribble. I also think people insulate themselves from how the longer a lie goes on, the worse it is for the person you’re lying to. ‘I’m not hurting their feelings!’ If you’ve been cheating for two weeks vs two years? I think that would be utterly heartbreaking. I was cheated on and lied to, and those who who kept the lie going were the ones who hurt the most. YMMV.

I appreciate your responses. Thanks for making me think

I have been on both sides of cheating. It didn't start there either time. It started with small lies...justified...and they festered. I learned from my mistakes. I fight the battle where the war is.

 

[PrettyLilPussy19]

I think the ultimate lesson is make sure people in your life share your views on transparency.

 

[PrettyLilPussy19]

03.21.21

Transatlantic moments (suggested)

While talking to people from other places on this planet, what have been some lingual differences you've discovered that were unexpected?

 

[AlpineFresco]

I think the ultimate lesson is make sure people in your life share your views on transparency.

This is... interesting. From the start of a relationship, yes, some level of compatibility here is important, although I don't know I'd have ever considered an ethically non-monogamous relationship until I, while single, met someone who was in one. But, small town upbringing - I swear it's bad and closes the mind in all kinds of ways. Anyway, I digress.

If you're in some kind of relationship with someone who is cheating, ultimately you have a pretty good idea that you're dealing with someone who can lie to your face to further getting what they want. And that means they (almost certainly) will lie to you. But they'll definitely tell you they aren't.

Now I haven't been cheated on nor have I cheated on anyone, but members of my family have been on the receiving end of cheating so I've been able to see the consequences. It's ugly.

 

[PrettyLilPussy19]

I do find it interesting in a topic on honesty -- cheating is the only thing people are thinking about. There are many things I'd hate to be lied to about over cheating.

And it's almost like being completely honest about something makes it less shitty but I do think it being brought (especially on Lit) makes it a high ground issue.

But anyway, new question.

 

[AlpineFresco]

"And it's almost like being completely honest about something makes it less shitty"

I don't think I follow what you mean with this bit.

 

[PrettyLilPussy19]

"And it's almost like being completely honest about something makes it less shitty"

I don't think I follow what you mean with this bit.

That it's fine to behave like a complete monster as long as everyone knows about it.

 

[AlpineFresco]

That it's fine to behave like a complete monster as long as everyone knows about it.

I'm still not sure I fully understand the context here, but if someone's openly behaving in some monstrous way then... people will react accordingly?