Female Lit authors: How much unsolicited sexual advances have you dealt with as a result of your writing?

[MillieDynamite]

One from 2022,

wow so what are you looking for and can i help may be both of you l would love that how about you guys

 

[Bramblethorn]

One from 2022,

Oh dear. I'd be so tempted to reply to that with "sure, I'm looking for my contact lens, have you seen it?"

 

[MillieDynamite]

Didn't respond at all.

Oh dear. I'd be so tempted to reply to that with "sure, I'm looking for my contact lens, have you seen it?"

 

[SeraphNocturne]

I've deleted most of the awful conversations or attempts at conversation, but here is a sample of a recent opening in one:



I know for a fact this was a copy and paste to at least one other female writer here so I chose to mess with him and critique his work and he was a damn good sport about it. I was laughing by the end of what turned into a conversation and basically told him to do better because he had conversation skills and should use them as he was engaging and personable without opening with a rape scenario.


I'm not opposed to talking to people. I like chatting, I've made some great friends here.

What I don't like is being treated like a mindless fucktoy or having assumptions made about me because I'm a woman on a porn site.

For what it's worth, Reddit was worse. I got death threats over stories and over not being willing to be entertainment for random men because I "liked to roleplay." No, I liked to write. I played both characters, I was not posting completed roleplays, as they assumed.

Existing on a porn site isn't an invitation to more.

Fucking hell, talk to us. Most of us are willing to chat. I love conversing with people on here. But I'm never going to be someone's sub here. I'm never going to accept being talked down to. I might simply not respond. I might be snarky and rude. Neither response warrants a "You won't think that when I shove my cock up your ass," response.

To dismiss that as, "Well, it is a porn site and you are a woman after all," is callous at best.

At worst it's encouraging these men to treat other women like this by showing ambivalence toward it. Be better. Expect better from fellow writers and humans.

I have developed several friendships with men from Lit because they were respectful and went out of their way to treat me as an equal. They set the bar pretty fucking high, fellas. Don't be like the guy who outed himself in this thread. Don't be like the guy who copy and pasted a rape scenario to random female writers, either.

We shouldn't have to accept, "He's lonely and is here for companionship, so just sit there and be his unwilling companion to avoid hurting his feelings since you are on a porn site. It should be expected, after all."

Fuck that. And fuck anyone who actually thinks that.

 

[Euphony]

Oh dear. I'd be so tempted to reply to that with "sure, I'm looking for my contact lens, have you seen it?"

It's the grammar that sent me.

"what are you looking for"

Caps. Commas. Really any proper punctuation you can spare.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Okay, but:

View attachment 2291428

This strikes me as another of those "apologetic" things.

Being married isn't an automatic exclusion these days. About half the people I've ever slept with were married to somebody else at the time, and most of the rest were partnered. One was cheating on her boyfriend, a couple were separated and headed for divorce, all the rest were in consensually non-monogamous relationships. "I'm married"/"I have a boyfriend"/etc. is often a polite cover for "No, I don't want to".

Unfortunately it's often a necessary cover, because there are a lot of guys who find it easier to respect some other guy's "ownership" of a woman than to respect the woman's own "no". And even if the hearer understands that being married doesn't always mean no, being told "sorry, I'm married" in that context should definitely be taken as a no.

Not blaming you or anybody else for using that particular refusal, and those guys are still being creepy. Just wish we lived in a world where "no thanks, not interested" was the default refusal instead of having to tiptoe around people's egos.

You are right.

I don’t normally lead with getting married. It’s normally a response to “well what changed?”

And it is often followed by ownership of chattels BS, then a bunch of these guys are from the previous generation.

Em

 

[Bramblethorn]

Didn't respond at all.

Probably the sensible choice, alas.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

I understand that "I'm married" isn't an automatic "NO" for some people. In fact, if the popularity of LW has taught us anything, it's that for some guys, it's an even bigger turn-on.

That said, I would assume that "Married and Incredibly Monogamous" in my bio would do something, but obviously it's not enough for some guys.

Perhaps it has. Maybe all the reasonable men have been turned away, and so I don't even see them. And the only guys who continue through are the ones who didn't bother reading my bio or have an active desire to cuck my husband.

It's lIke Survivorship Bias, but in reverse.

But I think the most egregious offenders are the ones who mentioned the fact that they read my bio and found it intriguing, but they seemed to have missed all the information that didn't tell them what they already wanted to hear.

 

[Voboy]

But I think the most egregious offenders are the ones who mentioned the fact that they read my bio and found it intriguing, but they seemed to have missed all the information that didn't tell them what they already wanted to hear.

Confirmation bias plus internet anonymity make it easy for people to read what they want to read, then reply in kind. It's easy for people to make their own little universes.

 

[Euphony]

"Married and Incredibly Monogamous"

Territorial boundaries only matter if each side recognizes the sovereignty of the other.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

Territorial boundaries only matter if each side recognizes the sovereignty of the other.

Oh I love that standup special.

"We stole countries... with the cunning use of flags."

---

But yes, point taken, I think. But "extremely monogamous" should, in this context, equal "fuck off"

 

[Euphony]

But "extremely monogamous" should, in this context, equal "fuck off"

Logically? Decency? Basic humanity? .

Real world: I'd keep loading up on Orange fruities. And the Zooms.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I understand that "I'm married" isn't an automatic "NO" for some people. In fact, if the popularity of LW has taught us anything, it's that for some guys, it's an even bigger turn-on.

That said, I would assume that "Married and Incredibly Monogamous" in my bio would do something, but obviously it's not enough for some guys.

Perhaps it has. Maybe all the reasonable men have been turned away, and so I don't even see them. And the only guys who continue through are the ones who didn't bother reading my bio or have an active desire to cuck my husband.

It's lIke Survivorship Bias, but in reverse.

But I think the most egregious offenders are the ones who mentioned the fact that they read my bio and found it intriguing, but they seemed to have missed all the information that didn't tell them what they already wanted to hear.

I feel I’m kinda getting on the wrong side of the argument here. I’m not commenting on what is right. Just on reality.

My points are:

1. Most guys are polite and back off when told to
2. This is a sex site - I think it’s denial to think otherwise. Our stories are topped and tailed by advertisements for sex workers. There is a hook up / cyber sex forum. The content of what we write is intended to turn people on, We can’t pretend that we are in some bubble.
3. Best to understand the people who form most of our readership IMO.
4. There are some scum, but also some who just want human contact - some who probably have no clue how to go about getting that. There is a difference between clumsy / ill-advised / socially awkward and those who genuinely have malice a forethought. The second category certainly exists. But it’s a tiny minority in my experience.

Is it wrong to assume a female author is also sexually available? Yes, of course. But consider the neighborhood we inhabit. Consider that we write to titillate (as well as to move and many other things of course).

Should people behave the way they do sometimes? No. But it’s unsurprising. Not right. Not OK. Just unsurprising given some aspects of human nature and that we are writing porn for a sex site.

Some people get violent when drunk. Is this OK? Of course not, violence is never OK. But is it surprising that it happens? No. This is my central point.

Em

 

[MediocreAuthor]

I feel I’m kinda getting on the wrong side of the argument here. I’m not commenting on what is right. Just on reality.

My points are:

1. Most guys are polite and back off when told to
2. This is a sex site - I think it’s denial to think otherwise. Our stories are topped and tailed by advertisements for sex workers. There is a hook up / cyber sex forum. The content of what we write is intended to turn people on, We can’t pretend that we are in some bubble.
3. Best to understand the people who form most of our readership IMO.
4. There are some scum, but also some who just want human contact - some who probably have no clue how to go about getting that. There is a difference between clumsy / ill-advised / socially awkward snd those who genuinely have malice a forethought. The second category certainly exists. But it’s a tiny minority in my experience.

Is it wrong to assume a female author is also sexually available? Yes, of course. But consider the neighborhood we inhabit. Consider that we write to titillate (as well as to move and many other things of course).

Should people behave the way they do sometimes? No. But it’s unsurprising. Not right. Not OK. Just unsurprising given some aspects of human nature and that we are writing porn for a sex site.

Some people get violent when drunk. Is this OK? Of course not, violence is never OK. But is it surprising that it happens? No. This is my central point.

Em

I agree that it's not surprising. If anything I'm surprised it hasn't happened more often.

For the first 6+months I was on the site, I had a generic pfp (which was completely illegible in the tiny bit crushed image on the story side of the site)


After I switched to my current pfp, and I posted a gender, I started getting more uncomfortable attention, but not a whole lot more.

Another female author was the one who told me that if I put my picture up, I would not be accosted with dick pics, and she was mostly correct.

---

So while I agree that pervy interactions are to be expected going in, I still say we should demand proper treatment, regardless of where we are.

[Edit: so while I agree with you that it isn't surprising, I think we have to be careful that in acknowledging the predictability of such behavior, we do not make it appear as if we are dismissing the unacceptable nature of those actions.

Case in point:

"Boys will be boys... Yes, but...
No, I will not let my son get away with mischief scot-free, just because it's to be expected." ]

 

[EmilyMiller]

I’m not saying boys will be boys.

I’m saying the denizens of a sex site are a different demographic. And it’s pretty well-established that most readers on Lit are horny males, here to get off on words, or whatever else they can get.

That demographic is going to be biased towards approaching females in a certain way. I don’t think that controversial to say.

Now that’s not everyone. I’m sure some of my readers appreciate my vocabulary (I actually get that a lot) and erudition. But a lot skip to the sex scenes.

Would I like to be appreciated for my ability as an author, rather than my ability to provide lexical relief? Maybe. But then perhaps I should be writing the next great American novel and not smut.

Should we expect more of people? Sure. Should we be better as a species? Yes. But we are semi-evolved simians and often behave like that. Again, it’s not saying “isn’t what can often amount to psychological abuse really OK?” It’s saying humans often behave poorly and on a sex site, that’s manifest in predictable ways.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. The latter often happens.

Em

 

[ThatBoi21]

I'm not even a woman and I've gotten messages from people - both on this site and on reddit - thinking I'm a woman and requesting nudes or trying to talk dirty with me. Which is pretty strange, considering Boi is literally in my username and I write smut that's pretty clearly written by a man.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I'm not even a woman and I've gotten messages from people - both on this site and on reddit - thinking I'm a woman and requesting nudes or trying to talk dirty with me. Which is pretty strange, considering Boi is literally in my username and I write smut that's pretty clearly written by a man.

Pervs aren’t discriminating (I’m aware of the irony).

Em

 

[MediocreAuthor]

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. The latter often happens.

Sure... And don't wear revealing clothing when walking alone late at night.

I'm not arguing that you're wrong. I'm just actively demanding more from the user base.

---

I had a Lit forum user specifically tell me, "I'm not here for stories. I don't wanna read your stories. I wanna learn more about you."

That's not what I want from this place.

 

[RainyDayPen]

Once I got a PM before I had written or shared a single story. I don't even know how it happened. No posts, no story. I just existed with a tag that said female in my profile and somehow they knew.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

All the years I've been here, as a dude, never been accosted sexually. Men can be... ugh, might be the best way to put it, but of course with gender roles, there's not much options but to be forward-- sociopolitical thinkings aside, along with how rude/unwanted such crass advances may be.

Of course those who don't know me, won't, so as this account progresses, I'll see if any letch's come fourth. As far as us writers being sex workers; I dissagree. I wonder if the attention depends on what one writes.

 

[StillStunned]

We still quote "oh, Edmund, it's the lying that's hurtful!"

You can't go wrong with a sheep joke. (Borne out by the fact that I immediately recognised the scene, even though I've only ever seen series 1 once, and that was in the 1980s.)

 

[nice90sguy]

... deleted becuase I'm not currently a female author

 

[MediocreAuthor]

... deleted becuase I'm not currently a female author

I said in the original post that I was okay with guys leaving their anecdotes. But I do appreciate your decision to be considerate.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Sure... And don't wear revealing clothing when walking alone late at night.

I’d love to live in a world where women could wear what they like without fear. I’ve suffered from my clothing being used against me. Again it’s a clash between how things ought to be (which we all agree on) and how they sometimes fall a long way short of that.

I'm not arguing that you're wrong. I'm just actively demanding more from the user base.

Which is fine to do. And good as well. Just be prepared for disappointments.

I had a Lit forum user specifically tell me, "I'm not here for stories. I don't wanna read your stories. I wanna learn more about you."

My point. Not everyone is here to wonder at the marvel of our literature. A lot are here to jerk off. AH is a bubble compared to Lit as a whole.

That's not what I want from this place.

It is laudable to expect more and that’s how change happens. But it happens very slowly and with set backs.

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

Yeah, this. It’s actually pretty common. Surprisingly so.

Me too…

Em