Movie role Dom types.
- Thread starter Betticus
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Netzach
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Jay Davis said:Not to spin this thread in too contrary a direction, but I can name one very talented actress who has failed twice to be Dommie when the character called for it:
Halle Barry, as either Storm or Catwoman.
She's gorgeous, sure, but she's so obviously a sub. Too bad they didn't make these movies while Angela Bassett was young enough to play the parts.Now, she could top me any time!
Seen Angela Bassett kicking lots of ass in Strange Days?
Netzach said:
You betcha!!!
I haven't seen that film in ages, but thinking back on it, it seems to me that the Ralph Fiennes character was pretty subby. BTW, I've had the relationship he had with Juliette Lewis in that movie, where you keep going back to a selfish, manipulative, diva princess, when what you're really looking for is a Domme.
As The Who said, "...won't get fooled again!"
OH! But my nominee for the biggest failure of an actor to effectively portray a Dom character is Kevin Costner in...almost anything except Field of Dreams and Silverado (his character was clearly a sub in both of these), and The Big Chill (where he played a corpse--his best performance ever!).
Particularly notable failures include Robin Hood, Waterworld, and Wyatt Earp (or whatever that was called; Kurt Russell was FAR better and far more toppy in Tombstone.)
rosco rathbone
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Netzach said:
Heh, I wanted to BE him in that movie.
And she had a shaved head.
"Strange Days" is rather lame but has one of the best rape scenes ever committed to film.
bridgeburner
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Willem Dafoe in To Live and Die in LA
Yes, on James Spader in anything at all. Yes, again, on John Malkovich in Dangerous Liasons.
Michael Wincott in The Crow, or Count of Monte Cristo or pretty much any damn thing he's been in.
Yep on Alan Rickman. I notice no one's mentioned Rutger Hauer yet but he's up there too in most things.
Sting in Brimstone and Treacle or even Dune.
-B
Yes, on James Spader in anything at all. Yes, again, on John Malkovich in Dangerous Liasons.
Michael Wincott in The Crow, or Count of Monte Cristo or pretty much any damn thing he's been in.
Yep on Alan Rickman. I notice no one's mentioned Rutger Hauer yet but he's up there too in most things.
Sting in Brimstone and Treacle or even Dune.
-B
canadiancutie
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I'm looking forward to Red Eye....looks kinda promising as far as the dommy/subby thing goes
Betticus
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Damn, no one has mentioned Darth Vader in the original Star Wars movies.
The scene where he chokes that guy to death with his mind.
What about the Baron Harkonnen from Dune?
The bald cop Vic Mackey from the Shield?
There is a movie called Equilibrium, you girls would get wet over the main character.
The scene where he chokes that guy to death with his mind.
What about the Baron Harkonnen from Dune?
The bald cop Vic Mackey from the Shield?
There is a movie called Equilibrium, you girls would get wet over the main character.
graceanne
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Betticus said:Gracie, you are supposed to be in bed and asleep like a good little girl!
Whoever said I was a good little girl?
Besides it's only 11:53 here. Why aren't you in bed? Aren't you sick right now? Or did your 'sub' steal your bed and now you don't have anywhere to sleep?
graceanne
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jasonlf said:
I dunno. Good point, but I still think that Ani is a dom. Maybe the Emporor is just more dominant. But like in the 'second' one where he's courting Padme - talk about very dominant. Although I don't think that Padme's a sub.
landcruisergal
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Betticus said:
You are soooo right about Darth Vader.
Jabba the Hutt did have near nude slaves in chains and his power was undeniable....Not an attractive dom though.
but Harkonnen...not sure.
And I watched a trailer for Equilibrium and Christian Bale is so hot I rang the local video shop to order it in for me. ( damn suburbs)
Gabriel Byrne as Byron in Gothic..."and here I thought you that contradiction in terms: an intelligent woman!"
The whole Anakin/Darth Vader debate points out a few things.
First, there are lots of different kinds of doms and subs. Not all doms are pushy, manipulative, bullying thugs; not all subs are whiny, cringing, pathetic worms. Just because someone is tough doesn't make him a Dom. D'Artagnan was a sub to his Queen; Athos was a sub to Milady, at least prior to the events in the story. In fact, pretty much ALL the Musketeers were subs, with the possible exception of Aramis. The only Dom in The Three Musketeers was Cardinal Richelieu.
Throughout his career as a Jedi, and then as a Sith, Anakin/Vader served a Master in a right-hand-man role. That's a very significant sub archetype throughout history, and even today. All political judgements aside, the Bush-Rove relationship is a classic example of this kind of Master/alpha-sub relationship.
Second, you can be submissive by nature in some situations, and dominant in others. For example, you might be submissive to men, but dominant toward women, or vice versa. Or submissive in romantic relationships, while dominant in professional ones. So noting that Anakin behaves in a toppy fashion to Amidala doesn't necessarily make him a Dom, any more than being manipulated by Palpatine necessarily makes him a sub.
Personally, I think the Jedi Knights are, almost by definition, what Rosco would call white-knight subs, just like the Musketeers. They found fulfillment in giving their lives over to something bigger, grander, and more worthy than themselves. This is true of Obi Wan, Anakin/Vader, Mace, even Yoda and Darth Maul.
The only two force-wielders in the entire Star Wars movie saga (I haven't read the novels, comics, etc, so I can't comment on them) who were demonstrably Dominant by nature were Palpatine and Qui-Gon. Neither of them fit into the Jedi Order. Palpatine, obviously, was the Sith that usurped his master's position as the top Sith Lord. I think the trick to STAYING the top Sith Lord is finding an apprentice who's tremendously powerful, and therefore tremendously useful, but who isn't going to betray you or rebel against your dominance. Count Dooku was a temporary fill-in, to keep the chair warm between the very subby Darth Maul and the seduction of Vader. Palpatine eliminated him the second he was no longer necessary, because Dooku was almost certianly insufficiently submissive to remain in the right-hand-man position for long.
Qui-Gon, on the other hand, was a genuinely good man, but a loose cannon and a cowboy. He wouldn't submit willingly to the directives of the Jedi Masters, but did what he thought was best. For this reason, despite his impressive record of accomplishment and his powerful command of the Force, he was never promoted to the rank of Master. The Order made a certain amount of room for him, because he was on their side, but certainly didn't fit neatly into their system.
First, there are lots of different kinds of doms and subs. Not all doms are pushy, manipulative, bullying thugs; not all subs are whiny, cringing, pathetic worms. Just because someone is tough doesn't make him a Dom. D'Artagnan was a sub to his Queen; Athos was a sub to Milady, at least prior to the events in the story. In fact, pretty much ALL the Musketeers were subs, with the possible exception of Aramis. The only Dom in The Three Musketeers was Cardinal Richelieu.
Throughout his career as a Jedi, and then as a Sith, Anakin/Vader served a Master in a right-hand-man role. That's a very significant sub archetype throughout history, and even today. All political judgements aside, the Bush-Rove relationship is a classic example of this kind of Master/alpha-sub relationship.
Second, you can be submissive by nature in some situations, and dominant in others. For example, you might be submissive to men, but dominant toward women, or vice versa. Or submissive in romantic relationships, while dominant in professional ones. So noting that Anakin behaves in a toppy fashion to Amidala doesn't necessarily make him a Dom, any more than being manipulated by Palpatine necessarily makes him a sub.
Personally, I think the Jedi Knights are, almost by definition, what Rosco would call white-knight subs, just like the Musketeers. They found fulfillment in giving their lives over to something bigger, grander, and more worthy than themselves. This is true of Obi Wan, Anakin/Vader, Mace, even Yoda and Darth Maul.
The only two force-wielders in the entire Star Wars movie saga (I haven't read the novels, comics, etc, so I can't comment on them) who were demonstrably Dominant by nature were Palpatine and Qui-Gon. Neither of them fit into the Jedi Order. Palpatine, obviously, was the Sith that usurped his master's position as the top Sith Lord. I think the trick to STAYING the top Sith Lord is finding an apprentice who's tremendously powerful, and therefore tremendously useful, but who isn't going to betray you or rebel against your dominance. Count Dooku was a temporary fill-in, to keep the chair warm between the very subby Darth Maul and the seduction of Vader. Palpatine eliminated him the second he was no longer necessary, because Dooku was almost certianly insufficiently submissive to remain in the right-hand-man position for long.
Qui-Gon, on the other hand, was a genuinely good man, but a loose cannon and a cowboy. He wouldn't submit willingly to the directives of the Jedi Masters, but did what he thought was best. For this reason, despite his impressive record of accomplishment and his powerful command of the Force, he was never promoted to the rank of Master. The Order made a certain amount of room for him, because he was on their side, but certainly didn't fit neatly into their system.
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The bottom line argument on Darth Vader is this...
If he were a Dominant, he'd have either betrayed Palpatine and usurped the top Sith spot, or Palpatine would have killed him when he tried. The fact that it's Vader that finishes the Emperor at the end of Return shows that he was capable of doing so, had he chose to. In stead, he remained in Palpatine's service until the very last moments of his life.
As an aside, Palpatine was hardly unbeatable as a Force wizard--Mace had Palpatine down for the count when Anakin betrayed the Jedi Order and backstabbed Mace. If Vader had wanted to take out Palpatine and replace him as top dog, he certainly could have done so. Instead, he followed Palpatine's orders for 20+ years, and hunted and slaughtered his former brother Jedi, whom he knew to be innocent of the crimes they were accused of, long after the bait which Palpatine used to initially seduce him--saving Amidala--was moot.
Darth Vader is clearly an alpha sub, not a Dom.
If he were a Dominant, he'd have either betrayed Palpatine and usurped the top Sith spot, or Palpatine would have killed him when he tried. The fact that it's Vader that finishes the Emperor at the end of Return shows that he was capable of doing so, had he chose to. In stead, he remained in Palpatine's service until the very last moments of his life.
As an aside, Palpatine was hardly unbeatable as a Force wizard--Mace had Palpatine down for the count when Anakin betrayed the Jedi Order and backstabbed Mace. If Vader had wanted to take out Palpatine and replace him as top dog, he certainly could have done so. Instead, he followed Palpatine's orders for 20+ years, and hunted and slaughtered his former brother Jedi, whom he knew to be innocent of the crimes they were accused of, long after the bait which Palpatine used to initially seduce him--saving Amidala--was moot.
Darth Vader is clearly an alpha sub, not a Dom.
landcruisergal
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Jay Davis said:
Oh but he wears all black and a cool mask, waves a big shiny red phallic symbol
(and I choose red over blue as a sex colour or a million brothels have to redecorate),
people do what he says and he breathes real heavy....
Works for me.
An old man in pjamas....yuck.
landcruisergal said:
Whatever melts your cheese, as someone around here says.
I said the was an alpha sub, tho. That means he gets to push around everyone except his Dom, as he pursues the Dom's agenda. Alpha subs tend to be very authoritarian in deciding how things are going to happen; they just need the Dom to figure out the what and the why.
landcruisergal
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Betticus said:
He was wonderful in Chasing Amy, and the jedi mind trick in Mall Rats...
