Do guns make us more safe?

[JohnEngelman]

I dislike guns and I do not own one.

I have read studies that show that people who own guns are more likely to be murdered by guns than people who do not own guns.

I have also read a study that indicates that many gun owners who are murdered by guns buy guns because they suspect that their lives are in danger, and they are right.

 

[JohnEngelman]

One argument by the gun lovers that I dislike is that we need guns to protect ourselves from the government. This is an argument that appeals to criminals and terrorists. I fear criminals and terrorists. I do not fear the government.

 

[TrailerHitch]

OK, I'll be stronger. I would have wrenched the stick from the old man and beat him senseless with it, putting him in hospital and making him bankrupt with his medical bills. Is that strong enough yet? I appreciate that I haven't bragged about how quickly I would have killed him but I can do that if you want.

So you are a sociopath attacking innocent old men. Your point is well taken. You are criminally insane.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Like I said you live in a cartoon universe.

And you live in a delusional one filled with lies you believe because honesty and reality mean nothing to you. Sad and pathetic.

 

[TrailerHitch]

I dislike guns and I do not own one.

I have read studies that show that people who own guns are more likely to be murdered by guns than people who do not own guns.

I have also read a study that indicates that many gun owners who are murdered by guns buy guns because they suspect that their lives are in danger, and they are right.

I suspect that I don't care if you own a gun or not. That is YOUR choice, exactly like it is my choice to own a gun or even a few guns.

Wow! Fascinating. Does that include gang related shootings or only white bread suburbanite statistics?

45 years as a gun owner and I'm still here. I only know one person that was murdered by a gun, by a jealous ex-husband. I do not know if he was a gun owner or not.

 

[adrina]

https://www.safewise.com/resources/...rship does,gun-related homicides and suicides.

Do guns make us safer?

A 2018 poll by NBC News and the Wall Street Journal found 58% of Americans agree with the statement “gun ownership does more to increase safety by allowing law-abiding citizens to protect themselves.”1 And gun owners seem to believe that idea at a higher rate. Pew Research Center found 65% of men and 71% of women gun owners say the primary reason they carry is for protection.2 While public opinion seems to support the idea that having guns makes us feel safer, science has something different to say about whether guns actually make us safer.

Statistically, having a gun in your home is more dangerous for you and your family, especially if you have young children or teens. A 2014 review in the Annals of Internal Medicine concluded having a firearm in the home, even when it’s properly stored, doubles your risk of becoming a victim of homicide and triples the risk of suicide.3

The statistics on gun violence also apply on a broader scale. The more firearms there are in a country (whether for self-defense, concealed carry, or recreational use), the higher the incidence of gun violence. Even after controlling for other factors like income, crime levels, and demographics, many studies over the last decade confirm this conclusion.

Americans are about 5% of the world’s population but have 42% of the world’s privately owned firearms.5 A fact which David Hemenway, professor of health policy at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, believes contributes to the higher rates of gun-related homicide in America compared with other industrialized nations. “Within the United States, a wide array of empirical evidence indicates that more guns in a community lead to more homicide.”6

 

[TrailerHitch]

One argument by the gun lovers that I dislike is that we need guns to protect ourselves from the government. This is an argument that appeals to criminals and terrorists. I fear criminals and terrorists. I do not fear the government.

Actually the Founding Fathers supported that very ideal. In fact Thomas Jefferson wrote this in a letter to William Stephens Smith (son in law of John Adams). "And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

So unless you are calling Thomas Jefferson a criminal, or a terrorist, you are once again speaking out of you anal orifice.

 

[JohnEngelman]

Actually the Founding Fathers supported that very ideal. In fact Thomas Jefferson wrote this in a letter to

Then I guess I disagree with one more opinion of the so called "Founding Fathers." They were in favor of slavery and they were opposed to women's suffrage, and free public education. I disagree with them on those subjects too.

 

[TrailerHitch]

I'm not losing the current debate. You guys have been stomped out so throughly that you're reverting to insults, actually you started with insults because your stance has absolutely no defense. More guns mean more deaths and more danger. It is just that simple.

And your side never resorts to that. I have been accused of living in a trailer, fucking my sister, and had homophobic slander thrown at me. So please save you sanctimonious play at being superior. Because until you comment on your allies and their nonsense I will fight back with the same vigor. It is just that simple.

 

[TrailerHitch]

It was only a matter of time before Hitch announced he won this. He's never had a single coherent or honest or accurate statement in the entire thread. Everyone laughs at his moronic and pathetic posts the entire time. He contradicts himself almost as much as he contradicts truth and reality. All he has is weak name calling and personal attacks and a complete lack of reading skills and comprehension. Which is exactly what he would consider as winning.

Blah blah blah...You love to pontific all the while saying nothing of value. Please do carry on.

 

[TrailerHitch]

So now you revert back to laws work. .

Bullshit. we have already gone down the route that the type of firing action isn't a decider in if the weapon is military or not. Read this dumbass, then tell me it's just a look a like....
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/ar15-vs-m4-difference/#:~:text=So, it shouldn't come,version of the AR-15.

You said you couldn't wait. Ask me nicely, tell me you can wait and I will.

I never said the magazine capacity has anything to do with the build of the rifle. This is your poor reading compression coming back to bit you in the ass, but more of that in a moment.

No she was a 9 year old shot in a school shooting, and I am sure her parents are now among the other parents of the 500 or so kids killed this year alone who are going to consider looking for Representatives to vote for who want bans on guns. That's not the kind of direction people like you want the Government to go....

Sure, you'd pull the switch or inject them, but you do fuck all to prevent the shootings in the first place, and even worse you enable people to have the opportunity to carry out those atrocities.

See my post above you selfish asshole. I hope you never have to face having one of your own "kin" die from your lack of action.

Now we are back to your poor reading comprehension. My answer had nothing to do with the Government, or criminal activity or even guns, you dumb fuck. When you asked why I comment "American issues" it's because I have fully a quarter of my relatives (close) who are Americans. Because I am a Canadian citizens doesn't mean I don't have roots in the USA, and I am sick and fucking tired of idiots like you, who think your 2A right trumps the other rights in the US Constitution.

So maybe next you ask a question, and someone answer's you'll give them the courtesy of remembering the answer....

Why remember? You are a broken record repeating the same nonsense over and over.

By the way, I still believe you won't define a military grade weapon because like most stuff from the anti-gun side it is a buzz word that makes your side wet themselves all the while having no idea of the meaning.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Not to mention the fact that ole Trailer has this obsessive need to get the last word in.
Shoot, I'm beginning to wonder if he has some Korean bloodlines in his recent ancestry.

No Rob, I'm not your Korean father, nor am I Korean. Thank goodness for that because if I was I would ask for you to be retroactively aborted.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Then I guess I disagree with one more opinion of the so called "Founding Fathers." They were in favor of slavery and they were opposed to women's suffrage, and free public education. I disagree with them on those subjects too.

Way to divert.

 

[JohnEngelman]

Way to divert.

Not at all. The so called "founding fathers" are often quoted by reactionaries to justify reactionary opinions.

In civilized countries even conservatives ask, "Why would anyone want to own a gun?"

 

[TrailerHitch]

Not at all. The so called "founding fathers" are often quoted by reactionaries to justify reactionary opinions.

In civilized countries even conservatives ask, "Why would anyone want to own a gun?"

And my answer is then don't own one. Pretty simple really.

 

[Sean Renaud]

And you live in a delusional one.

Once again thanks for admitting you were losing this current debate so badly that you had to go back and rehash a topic that was over weeks ago. That you lost then too. Sad that you have nothing else.

Unfortunately I live in the real world with real world consequences. You live in one where you would shoot me for walking too close to you.

As for the Founding Fathers of course they were criminals and terrorists. What part of that is particularly complicated? Even if they were super heroes too many have died for the freedumb we abuse in this nation to allow ourselves to be slaves to men who have been dead for close to 200 years (I simply refuse to look up when the last one died especially since even the term FF is slippery) but you, you who has no will but only fear would serve the dead.

I was NEVER losing this argument nor that one. Everybody knows you're a fucking joke and your logic never holds up. You revert instantly to racism because its really the only thing you have. You pretend to give a damn about the innercity when we all know you don't. How do we know? You fight against anything that would improve their plight. Better wages, better police practices, fewer guns, hell better environmental controls would do wonders. Everything you do, intentional or not, is bad for the inner city.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Unfortunately I live in the real world with real world consequences. You live in one where you would shoot me for walking too close to you.

As for the Founding Fathers of course they were criminals and terrorists. What part of that is particularly complicated? Even if they were super heroes too many have died for the freedumb we abuse in this nation to allow ourselves to be slaves to men who have been dead for close to 200 years (I simply refuse to look up when the last one died especially since even the term FF is slippery) but you, you who has no will but only fear would serve the dead.

I was NEVER losing this argument nor that one. Everybody knows you're a fucking joke and your logic never holds up. You revert instantly to racism because its really the only thing you have. You pretend to give a damn about the innercity when we all know you don't. How do we know? You fight against anything that would improve their plight. Better wages, better police practices, fewer guns, hell better environmental controls would do wonders. Everything you do, intentional or not, is bad for the inner city.

Rehashing you same old despicable lie. I hope shit like that helps you sleep at night knowing what a liar and loser you really are. Herr Goebbels you will not use the Nazi method of repeating the same lie over and over and hoping to drown out those that know the truth.

You always lose and the evidence is you had to back track and bring up an old topic to divert away from getting your ass kicked. There is no other reason for bringing that back and then bald faced lying about what I said. You are a sanctimonious, lying, hypocrite.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Rehashing you same old despicable lie. I hope shit like that helps you sleep at night knowing what a liar and loser you really are. Herr Goebbels you will not use the Nazi method of repeating the same lie over and over and hoping to drown out those that know the truth.

You always lose and the evidence is you had to back track and bring up an old topic to divert away from getting your ass kicked. There is no other reason for bringing that back and then bald faced lying about what I said. You are a sanctimonious, lying, hypocrite.

Its not a lie, nobody who has read you thinks its a lie. Why do you think people pile on you? Its not because you "think for yourself". I mean lets pretend I believed for a second there was truly a thing as thinking for yourself. Which I do not. I think all of us have had teachers, mentors (yes there is a difference) idols, read certain books and absorbed certain media both 'news' media and entertainment. Someone who grew up watching G.I. Joe and someone who grew up watching My Little Pony will have different perspectives. That isn't to say each person isn't unique or that people don't have agency.

You however just enjoy being contrary. You do know the truth. Guns make us less safe. This is not a debatable point. You speak of the inner city, that doesn't change the fact that you are safer in Chicago than Kansas. You are safer in New York than most of the south, same with Los Angeles. Those are just the facts and that's not bring up mass shooting which while sensational are not the REAL problem.

We should really be talking suicide as well. This whole "They will find a way" doesn't hold up against the data. Suicide attempts more often than not are a cry for help. We could address mental health in this nation but once again, scum like you are completely against investing in that sort of thing. I know how you gun lovers have a very specific idea of what makes a man and that is deadly, ironically its one of very few things in the US that over the last few years especially but historically have fucked over white men more than any other demographic but during recessions (our second in just over a decade) because minorities already know the system is bullshit and don't feel quite so bad when it falls apart. White men have been taught since birth, work hard and it will work out. When it doesn't through no fault of their own they cannot process it as an outside force affecting them but rather as a personal shortcoming.

Anyhow a gun will more than likely get the job done. Poison? OD? Good chance you either get found before its too late or you just vomit and have a helluva bad day. Slit wrists? It hurts like hell sure (speaking from experience on that one) but it hard to cut deep. The amount of people with the balls to step out in front of a train is pretty low.

I understand. You don't give a shit about human life. That's who you are.

I did not lie. The facts today are no different than they were when I kicked your stupid ass before. If someone is walking near you with a stick, a bat, a hockey stick, a cricket bat (you gotta know what a crumpet is to understand cricket!) you'll be on the floor long before you can pull your gun. You either shoot everybody approaching you, hell you better hope the rando guy doesn't know how to throw hands, or you're already fucked.

You responded that I was psycho. Because you were pretending you were too fucking stupid to understand what a hypothetical is. That's the thing, you're not retarded, just evil.

But like I said you live in a cartoon world where thugs scream "For the HORDE!!!!!" before attacking instead of getting in range and sneak attack. I've been jumped, and seen people get jumped. Occasionally shit just happens but you can either cross the street every time you see a person/shoot the fuck out of them or accept that maybe this is the day someone takes your iPhone. Probably not but the kind of person who carries a concealed weapon to go get ice cream is someone who treats maybe as this of course happens everyday.

Anyway I am many things, but a liar or hypocrite are not on the list. I hole myself to higher standards than other people. I get that people sometimes don't make sense or had a good reason for lying to me. I might not love it, hell I might even know at the time and trust that they had a reason. I'm also not technically sanctimonious by the by. I don't think I'm better than other people. I know I'm better than you. I also know Rob is better than you. HELL may the six Satans forgive me but more often than not RightGuide is better than you. Lovecraft is a fucking legend compared to trash like you. Unlike RG who I can have civil conversations with LC hates me like I killed his sister but yeah, still out of your league and that's before we bring up the old school conservatives.

Also seriously guys is LJReloaded dead or something?

 

[JohnEngelman]

And my answer is then don't own one. Pretty simple really.

If I am shot I will be shot by someone who does own one.

 

[Bray123]

Just a thought. In order to make America safer, Trump is banned from owning a gun.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Rehashing you same old despicable lie. I hope shit like that helps you sleep at night knowing what a liar and loser you really are. Herr Goebbels you will not use the Nazi method of repeating the same lie over and over and hoping to drown out those that know the truth.

You always lose and the evidence is you had to back track and bring up an old topic to divert away from getting your ass kicked. There is no other reason for bringing that back and then bald faced lying about what I said. You are a sanctimonious, lying, hypocrite.

Repeating "Nuh uh! Nuh uh! Nuh uh!" ad infinitum is rarely a good strategery for convincing people of teh righteousness of your position. See also: HisArpy.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Its not a lie, nobody who has read you thinks its a lie. Why do you think people pile on you? Its not because you "think for yourself". I mean lets pretend I believed for a second there was truly a thing as thinking for yourself. Which I do not. I think all of us have had teachers, mentors (yes there is a difference) idols, read certain books and absorbed certain media both 'news' media and entertainment. Someone who grew up watching G.I. Joe and someone who grew up watching My Little Pony will have different perspectives. That isn't to say each person isn't unique or that people don't have agency.

You however just enjoy being contrary. You do know the truth. Guns make us less safe. This is not a debatable point. You speak of the inner city, that doesn't change the fact that you are safer in Chicago than Kansas. You are safer in New York than most of the south, same with Los Angeles. Those are just the facts and that's not bring up mass shooting which while sensational are not the REAL problem.

We should really be talking suicide as well. This whole "They will find a way" doesn't hold up against the data. Suicide attempts more often than not are a cry for help. We could address mental health in this nation but once again, scum like you are completely against investing in that sort of thing. I know how you gun lovers have a very specific idea of what makes a man and that is deadly, ironically its one of very few things in the US that over the last few years especially but historically have fucked over white men more than any other demographic but during recessions (our second in just over a decade) because minorities already know the system is bullshit and don't feel quite so bad when it falls apart. White men have been taught since birth, work hard and it will work out. When it doesn't through no fault of their own they cannot process it as an outside force affecting them but rather as a personal shortcoming.

Anyhow a gun will more than likely get the job done. Poison? OD? Good chance you either get found before its too late or you just vomit and have a helluva bad day. Slit wrists? It hurts like hell sure (speaking from experience on that one) but it hard to cut deep. The amount of people with the balls to step out in front of a train is pretty low.

I understand. You don't give a shit about human life. That's who you are.

I did not lie. The facts today are no different than they were when I kicked your stupid ass before. If someone is walking near you with a stick, a bat, a hockey stick, a cricket bat (you gotta know what a crumpet is to understand cricket!) you'll be on the floor long before you can pull your gun. You either shoot everybody approaching you, hell you better hope the rando guy doesn't know how to throw hands, or you're already fucked.

You responded that I was psycho. Because you were pretending you were too fucking stupid to understand what a hypothetical is. That's the thing, you're not retarded, just evil.

But like I said you live in a cartoon world where thugs scream "For the HORDE!!!!!" before attacking instead of getting in range and sneak attack. I've been jumped, and seen people get jumped. Occasionally shit just happens but you can either cross the street every time you see a person/shoot the fuck out of them or accept that maybe this is the day someone takes your iPhone. Probably not but the kind of person who carries a concealed weapon to go get ice cream is someone who treats maybe as this of course happens everyday.

Anyway I am many things, but a liar or hypocrite are not on the list. I hole myself to higher standards than other people. I get that people sometimes don't make sense or had a good reason for lying to me. I might not love it, hell I might even know at the time and trust that they had a reason. I'm also not technically sanctimonious by the by. I don't think I'm better than other people. I know I'm better than you. I also know Rob is better than you. HELL may the six Satans forgive me but more often than not RightGuide is better than you. Lovecraft is a fucking legend compared to trash like you. Unlike RG who I can have civil conversations with LC hates me like I killed his sister but yeah, still out of your league and that's before we bring up the old school conservatives.

Also seriously guys is LJReloaded dead or something?

You posted a hypothetical. I posted my hypothetical response. You didn't like it and changed your hypothetical to you attempting to beat me to death with your walking stick. In that scenario if I couldn't escape you are God Damned right I would shoot you. My first option is ALWAYS to retreat if possible. If that option isn't available I will defend myself with any means necessary including shooting your dumb ass for attempting to kill me.

I'm done addressing your lies on this topic of me shooting you so post away I shall not respond any longer to your psychotic ramblings.

 

[TrailerHitch]

If I am shot I will be shot by someone who does own one.

That answer is so obviously stupid that it is beneath even a dumb ass lib like you.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Repeating "Nuh uh! Nuh uh! Nuh uh!" ad infinitum is rarely a good strategery for convincing people of teh righteousness of your position. See also: HisArpy.

How about Fuck Off you liberal ass wipe. Is that more to your liking?

 

[TrailerHitch]

Its not a lie, nobody who has read you thinks its a lie. Why do you think people pile on you? Its not because you "think for yourself". I mean lets pretend I believed for a second there was truly a thing as thinking for yourself. Which I do not. I think all of us have had teachers, mentors (yes there is a difference) idols, read certain books and absorbed certain media both 'news' media and entertainment. Someone who grew up watching G.I. Joe and someone who grew up watching My Little Pony will have different perspectives. That isn't to say each person isn't unique or that people don't have agency.

You however just enjoy being contrary. You do know the truth. Guns make us less safe. This is not a debatable point. You speak of the inner city, that doesn't change the fact that you are safer in Chicago than Kansas. You are safer in New York than most of the south, same with Los Angeles. Those are just the facts and that's not bring up mass shooting which while sensational are not the REAL problem.

We should really be talking suicide as well. This whole "They will find a way" doesn't hold up against the data. Suicide attempts more often than not are a cry for help. We could address mental health in this nation but once again, scum like you are completely against investing in that sort of thing. I know how you gun lovers have a very specific idea of what makes a man and that is deadly, ironically its one of very few things in the US that over the last few years especially but historically have fucked over white men more than any other demographic but during recessions (our second in just over a decade) because minorities already know the system is bullshit and don't feel quite so bad when it falls apart. White men have been taught since birth, work hard and it will work out. When it doesn't through no fault of their own they cannot process it as an outside force affecting them but rather as a personal shortcoming.

Anyhow a gun will more than likely get the job done. Poison? OD? Good chance you either get found before its too late or you just vomit and have a helluva bad day. Slit wrists? It hurts like hell sure (speaking from experience on that one) but it hard to cut deep. The amount of people with the balls to step out in front of a train is pretty low.

I understand. You don't give a shit about human life. That's who you are.

I did not lie. The facts today are no different than they were when I kicked your stupid ass before. If someone is walking near you with a stick, a bat, a hockey stick, a cricket bat (you gotta know what a crumpet is to understand cricket!) you'll be on the floor long before you can pull your gun. You either shoot everybody approaching you, hell you better hope the rando guy doesn't know how to throw hands, or you're already fucked.

You responded that I was psycho. Because you were pretending you were too fucking stupid to understand what a hypothetical is. That's the thing, you're not retarded, just evil.

But like I said you live in a cartoon world where thugs scream "For the HORDE!!!!!" before attacking instead of getting in range and sneak attack. I've been jumped, and seen people get jumped. Occasionally shit just happens but you can either cross the street every time you see a person/shoot the fuck out of them or accept that maybe this is the day someone takes your iPhone. Probably not but the kind of person who carries a concealed weapon to go get ice cream is someone who treats maybe as this of course happens everyday.

Anyway I am many things, but a liar or hypocrite are not on the list. I hole myself to higher standards than other people. I get that people sometimes don't make sense or had a good reason for lying to me. I might not love it, hell I might even know at the time and trust that they had a reason. I'm also not technically sanctimonious by the by. I don't think I'm better than other people. I know I'm better than you. I also know Rob is better than you. HELL may the six Satans forgive me but more often than not RightGuide is better than you. Lovecraft is a fucking legend compared to trash like you. Unlike RG who I can have civil conversations with LC hates me like I killed his sister but yeah, still out of your league and that's before we bring up the old school conservatives.

Also seriously guys is LJReloaded dead or something?

You are the dictionary definition of sanctimonious. Which is pretty funny for a narcissistic liar like you.