Do you honestly like women?

[cherrylips_au]

After reading throught the thread lots of points have been made, some relevant some not.

I would like to add on the rapist part that they don't only go after young pretty women, what about older women even grandmothers that are raped or children and young teenagers or men?

No one can say how a rapists mind works as different things make them do it but basically it still comes down to the power and control over their victim.

Reclaiming the words slut, whore, and bitch doesn't appeal to me as I would never feel comfortable be called that by a complete stranger, you don't know exactly what context they are meaning it. Also I wouldn't feel comfortable about anyone calling my daughters those names.

Back to the orginal question, do authors who use those words hate women? Only the author can answer that but do we always have to like characters we write about?
If we are writing about a rapist or a murderer or racist it doesn't mean we like them or anything that character does. It just means that person (not the author) has evolved into that character for their part of the story.

 

[Guest]

Haven't been sleeping, so I have been reading.

When I read some stories I get the feeling that the author doesn't particularly like/respect women. Sure, they're great to screw or useful for various sexual servicing, but other than that they are not very important.

I know that the other extreme exists, it just doesn't scream at me as loudly, I guess.

Question: do you authors honestly like at least some of the women in your stories (when appropriate)? Or are they just sexual participants that don't have greater worth?

b

_____

The last story I wrote, Queen of Hearts, was a dedication to the most loving woman I thought I could imagine, in spite of her boyfriend who temporarily lost his mind. Yes, I love the women in my stories--so much so, I've dedicated first three to them in straight, bi, and lesbian.

That said, your question has me wondering: could (or would) I actually write a story with a woman that I couldn't care about, or even make us dislike her?

I really don't know! LOL!

Interesting thread.

 

[susurrus]

Do I repect women? You bet. The women in my stories? Of course.

I think most of us when writing are putting little bits and pieces of ourselves into each character, however fleeting they may be. It may be parts of us that exist, or parts that we wished existed, but they are us.

When I go back and look at my stories, I realize that my characterizations are often very vague, but I think it generally goes for my male characters, as well. It doesn't stem from any like/dislike for either gender. It's just that when you're writing a four page story, it gets pretty tough to flesh out everybody the protagonist meets.

I just re-read that last paragraph. That's sure the way to get people to read your stuff: "Oh yeah, and my stories are full of half-assed characters..."

As far as language, I'm generally turned off, as well, by writers who use as synonyms for woman, "slut, bitch and whore."

I can think of only one of my stories where I actually use language like that, and it's a female character using it with another female. It actually surprised me when the scene started coming off my fingers. The male in that scene, if I remember correctly, never uses that kind of language. It's not the kind of language I use, especially when describing women, so I have a difficult time making my characters use it, too.

Now that I think about it, I guess maybe I used slut and bitch occasionally in the Stephanie stories, but once again, it was a female character using it. I don't know if that excuses it, especially after my statement above saying that we put ourselves into our characters. I'm not a misogynist. At least I don't *think* I am...

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Scene from Married With Children, in which Al Bundy is on trial for hitting a burglar.

Burglar: -Your honour, my career has been ruined. I've been greatly traumatized by mr Bundy's brutal attack on me. I may never dare to rob anyone again!

The episode ended with the judge sentencing Al to pay $50.000 to the burglar, on which Al asked him to make it $100.000, and then he hit the burglar again - and hurt his hand, and sued the burglar for this, and won $100.000...

Even though this was a comedy show, a similar thing actually happend in Sweden. A burglar tried to get into a kiosk through a window on the roof, but the roof broke, and the burglar fell down into the kiosk, hurting himself on the broken glass from the window. He sued the kiosk owner, and WON...

 

[deliciously_naughty]

Since no one even acknowledged my post and have continued to post incorrect info, I'm only going to remind all of you that the VAST majority of reported rape victims knew and trusted their rapist. Which is another reasons that many more rapes still go unreported every year. I've done work in the area and can back it up.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Sorry, DN, you are absolutely right. And I think that your info strenghtens my arguments. It doesn't matter all that much how you dress or who you hang out with - although yes, spreading your legs naked in front of a man who's raped 20 women already, isn't recommended - because a lot of rapists attack women they know; their neighbour, their long time friend, their co-worker, even if these women have been wearing full-covering clothes all their life.


Now, bridgeburner... I could let possible rapists scare me into dressing in turtle necks and long skirts, never go out after dark (which in Sweden means that you can only leave your house between 9am and 2pm every day), always carry a pepper spray with me wherever I go, and an alarm, and a big dog...

But I won't let these creeps tell me how to live my life. I have the right to dress however I want, go where ever I want, whenever I want it, without any other weapons than my two hands. If I let them scare me, they have beaten me.

It's they who should be afraid of me. The streets belong to me, not them.

 

[Couture]

Speaking as one who writes stories where women are called sluts, whores, bitches, and probably a whole lot more creative names I've left out. But don't worry, I'm an equal opportunity writer, I call the men names too.

I tend to write about people doing things that are less consensual in nature. Saying 'do you really like women' to porn writers, is like asking Stephen King if he really likes people. It's a stupid question. It's just a damn story. I for one, enjoy stories where the main character has to enter some sort of relationship he/she doesn't intitially want. That's the suspense. Then by the end one or more of the characters grow and then there's a climax.

Personally, I hate stories where there is no 'point', no suspense, no controversy. And just as many stories about a couple fucking in a park fall into this category as somebody capturing a woman and whipping her.

Back on topic, in real life I love everyone. I'm a freakin' bleedin' heart liberal. I do talk dirty and use all sorts of foul language, but it's reserved for the bedroom.

 

[DVS]

.

 

[Couture]

You know, Svensa, why don't you go get together with some more of your politically correct friends and go ban some books or something.

This is the second time you've pulled this shit. First, it was about interracial stories and now it's about women. If you don't like it . . don't fucking read it. But don't expect me to change what I read and write to suit you or any of your thought police buddies. And damn, I'm just plain tired of listening to you whine.

Maybe if you're reading all these stories, then you may want to take a look at yourself. In other words, me thinketh the bitch doth protest to much.

 

[Guest]

stupid question

Saying 'do you really like women' to porn writers, is like asking Stephen King if he really likes people. It's a stupid question. It's just a damn story.....

....Back on topic, in real life I love everyone. I'm a freakin' bleedin' heart liberal. I do talk dirty and use all sorts of foul language, but it's reserved for the bedroom.

Couture-

Sorry that I don't follow your logic.... I think you have misunderstood my question; philosophical persuasion has very little to do with it.

I am not asking if you like women in general, just if you like the women in your stories.

I would hazard to guess that there are many writers who don't and that that is part of what defines their writing.

Lst time I checked, I started this thread. If I had a problem with Svenska's posts I would have said something about it. I haven't seen Svenska, or anyone else, propose censoring stories, she explicitly stated that she "hits the back button".

I do have a problem with you resurrecting some old conflict here.

Start your own thread and bitch and moan there.

 

[Couture]

I have liked most of the women in my stories. I have liked all the protagonists, but there have been a couple of antagonists that were entirely too evil to like. However, even some of these had their good points.

BK, you might not have had a problem with the posts, but I did.

It seemed to me that the original topic was do you like the women in your stories? When this changed to the degredation of authors who use language in their stories and then finally somehow equating things to rape . . . I took offense.

 

[TheEarl]

I was burglarized back in '83. OK, don't anybody even dare to say that was before you were born!

Wow, that was a year before I was born .

Don't you feel old now?

The Earl

 

[Svenskaflicka]

BK, you might not have had a problem with the posts, but I did.

It seemed to me that the original topic was do you like the women in your stories? When this changed to the degredation of authors who use language in their stories and then finally somehow equating things to rape . . . I took offense.

If you had read more carefully, maybe you'd have noticed that I don't tell anyone not to use this or that word, neither am I trying to degrade people who write stories using these words. I have never made any kind of connection between authors of rape-novels and actual rapes.

I have, however, done my best to degrade and bad-mouth rapists, and claimed that stories in which degrading words and rape exist, may desensitize a person reading them on a regular basis.

I think that people who agree with me usually do what I do, and stay away from the Non-consent section, AND hit the back-button when they read a story they don't like.

I also think that people who are serious when it comes to debates, stick to the issues instead of attacking any special person, and refrain from calling them "bitch".





Now where are my matches..?

 

[Pookie]

Since no one even acknowledged my post and have continued to post incorrect info, I'm only going to remind all of you that the VAST majority of reported rape victims knew and trusted their rapist. Which is another reasons that many more rapes still go unreported every year. I've done work in the area and can back it up.

I think I agreed with you in an earlier post. LOL I was hoping that someone would respond to my comment in my last post as to whether date-rape is the most common ... and probably most unreported rape.

Pookie

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I can't quote any statistics to prove you right, but I think you have a point, Pookie.

 

[sirhugs]

Some women charaters I like, others I don't, but I would never use gross disgusting labels to describe them.

 

[Guest]

I think I agreed with you in an earlier post. LOL I was hoping that someone would respond to my comment in my last post as to whether date-rape is the most common ... and probably most unreported rape.

Pookie

_______

A quick Google search came up with this (statistics here are from a college sampling):


General Date Rape Statistics
Christine Tucker, Staff Writer
Friday, October 04, 2002 - Volume 91 Number 32

Printed from DailyBeacon.utk.edu
URL: http://dailybeacon.utk.edu/article.php/7498

25% of college women surveyed are victims of rape or attempted rape.

85% of rapes on campuses are acquaintance/date rapes.

73% of those forced to have sex fail to recognize their experience as rape.

90% of all campus rapes occur when alcohol has been used by either the assailant or the victim.

70% of college students admit to having engaged in sexual activity primarily as a result of being under the influence of alcohol, or to having sex they wouldn't have had if they had been sober.

84% of women assaulted knew their assailant.

75% of the assailants and 55% of the survivors had been drinking at the time of the assault.

10% of rape victims were male in 1999.

100% of gang rapes involve alcohol.


The Aftermath:

82% of the victims said that the experience had permanently changed them.

30% or less of women assaulted by a strangers come forward.

27% identified themselves as victims.

42% of college women who are raped do not tell anyone about the assault.

5% of college women who are raped report the rape to the police.

5% report it to a rape crisis center.

1% of women assaulted will report it to the police if victimized by date/acquaintance.


On the Boys' Side:

1% of male students who rape are prosecuted.

40% of men would rape under certain circumstances.

84% of college men who committed rape said that what they did was definitely not rape.

7% of college men reported committing a rape or attempting to commit rape the proceeding year.


Sources: Central Michigan University Sexual Assault Peer Advocates Web site, U.S. Dept. of Justice, Kansas State University Alcohol and other Drug Education Service, Facts on Tap - "Risky Relationships," Koss, M.P. (1988). Hidden Rape: Sexual Aggression and victimization in the nation sample of students in higher education. New York, NY: Praeger, 1999 National Crime Victimization Survey, U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, and the Turning Point Services Web site.


©Copyright The Daily Beacon 2002. All rights reserved.

 

[bridgeburner]

Svenska,

I think you're still talking past the point a bit --- perhaps not. It might just be that you were reiterating your feelings on the matter in which case I apologize for belaboring this.

I'm not recommending that anyone live in fear or bow down to bullies whether they're rapists or political terrorists. I was only acknowledging the fact presented by DVS that our rights are under constant assault in this life and the mere assertion of one's rights doesn't keep people from trying to violate them.

I've got the right not to be run down in the street, but I still look both ways before stepping off the curb. It's a matter of what's more important to me: asserting my right to step into the street oblivious or ensuring that I don't end up as a grease-spot on the asphalt because some maniac is trying to shave 3 seconds off his morning commute. I don't think knowing I had the right of way would be much comfort to me if I was dead.

 

[Pookie]

I know I probably shouldn't reply ....

The only thing any of us can do is to use our common sense in any situation. Would I walk down a dark alley at midnight all by myself dressed like I was looking for sex? Nope.

Then again ... would ANYONE walk down a dark alley at midnight by themselves. Not if they have any common sense.

I was taught to be aware of my surroundings. Use my head where I go alone, etc etc. The same really goes for guys, but the threats are not quite the same either, admittedly.

Dressing sexy to me has little to do with becoming a target for a rape by someone you don't know. If you don't put yourself in a position where you are completely isolated, the odds he would try anything with others around are very very low, no matter how I dress or present myself.

Being alone with a date presents opportunities where things can get out of control. Clothes may play some part in it then, but I don't think that is what will trigger it typically, even in a date-rape situation. It all comes down to using your head. Some things you can't control at times, but most of the time it is easy to keep yourself from creating an opportunity for the rape to occur ... not always though. Just as looking both ways before stepping off a curb won't always prevent you from getting run over by someone who serves out of their lane.

 

[bridgeburner]

Yes, Pookie,

"Dressing sexy to me has little to do with becoming a target for a rape by someone you don't know."

Dressing sexy has little to do with becoming a target of rape period ---- as you pointed out it's opportunity that is the biggest factor.



somewhat off-topic

Of course, I'm still not quite sure how this ended up as the rape thread. Nothing wrong with the topic but it seems to draw that nasty correlation between fiction and reality ---- that if you fantasize or write about something you necessarily condone it or want to do it in real life.

--B

 

[Svenskaflicka]

bridgeburner, I don't think that reading a rape story will automatically make someone want to go out and rape someone. But I DO think that reading tons of stories where women are insulted, degraded, hurt, raped, or used sexually, desensitizes a person, so that next time he hears someone saying "yo, bitch, where's my pen?", he won't question the choice of words, and next time he hears about a woman getting raped, he'll shrug his shoulders and think that it's not such a big deal.

 

[bridgeburner]

Desensitization is a bit of a slippery slope. Certainly one CAN become desensitized, but how this happens and to whom is less dependant on their reading material than on their upbringing. If someone doesn't understand the difference between fact and fiction, reality and fantasy then desensitization is the least of his problems.

 

[pop_54]

Hi all

On the original subject matter, I love all the women in my stories, main reason being that up to now I've only written stories that contain some or a lot of fact, I have yet to develope into a fiction writer, I'm working on it, but I still need a base to work from at the moment and what better base than real experiences.
When I run out of real life to work from, I'll start inventing it thereafter.

I have posted true tales of my past and other folks that I know, names changed of course, added a bit of dirty language and over sexed content, well nobody likes real life do they, me included, it's too boring.
In case you wonder how come I have a lot of history to call on, I lived through the 1960's and 70's as a single youth and man and took full advantage of the sexual revolution, (when I wasn't too stoned), and then to top it up I married a much younger and quite adventurous woman at the tender age of 30, (I was 30, she 20).

I do use the slut word, and the bitch word occasionally but only in a light hearted manner, or when relevant, relevant being that a couple of ladies I know call themselves sluts.
I would never use these words just as a term of insult or to degrade a female character without cause in the story, mainly the use would be part of speech text from another female, girls do have a tendency to call each other sluts more than we males use the word it seems at times in real life.

On the rape and assault thing, I'd recommend all young and older ladies take self defence lessons, and you guys if you're of nervous disposition about anything.
My darling wifey has reached Blue belt in Judo now, she stuck with it I gave up at Orange belt, too bloody rough for me, the thing is it not only gives her confidence to defend herself but it keeps her super fit and very trim for her age.
I would not try to mess with my darling, she wipes the bloody floor with me if I play up.

Cheers chaps and chapess's............pops..............

 

[Svenskaflicka]

5th Kyu of Aikido.

 

[bridgeburner]

Welcome, Pops. Good to have you here.