The 'ethics' of casual 'bdsm'

[CutieMouse]

So we are talking about a money-making organization, not a bunch of friends getting together for a potluck and 'play party'.

We are talking about any organized group attempting to put on any sort of professional event.

In case you are unaware, a 501c3 organization is a not-for-profit company, held liable for their tax exempt status by the US Federal Government.

TES is one of America's oldest BDSM organizations - also 501c3

I'm sure there are many many more. The requirements to pass 501c3 status are not easy, and it means every single penny must be accounted for.

 

[intothewoods]

Wait a minute.

You said:



Who is getting that money?

I don't understand why you are confused. http://www.br.org/ Black Rose is non-profit and it's volunteer-run. No person receives the profits. The money goes back into the group to pay for events, educational programs, etc.

That's not to say there aren't "for profit" operations out there. Bdsm brick and mortar clubs are another story.

I've attended Black Rose events. The hotel they are held at ain't cheap ;-) It's a large, well known chain with a view of the Capitol building.

I was talking about the weekly classes.

 

[BLoved]

You think *I* am being passive aggressive?

...

You ignored my request. I did ask multiple times - because you kept ignoring the question.

And you've been hammering away at me ever since.

Obviously my opinion means a great deal to you, that you should obsess so much over my opinion of your relationship.

 

[intothewoods]

FurryFury explained how one munch and a fee gets you into a 'play party'.

You are talking about how it "ain't cheap" to rent the facilities used for Black Rose events.

Sounds like a lot of people paying a lot of fees to get into 'play parties' ... and all they have to do to be invited is chit-chat through one munch.

Oy. Ok, you have private parties -- friends getting together, no groups involved.

You have small public parties - held in a rented out club or a person's home, nominal fee charged to cover costs, hosted by a regional/local bdsm organization.

You have major events - BR, Dark Odyssey, Shibaricon, TesFest, Floating World... Those cost more money because they're more than one day, typically held at a hotel, include multiple classes in the day and parties at night.

You have bdsm night clubs like the Citadel. That's a whole other thing with which I'm not that familiar, but it's for profit.

 

[BLoved]

No. Because the only other person I played with was a flogging at my request and they have this really annoying habit of always asking me what I want and if I'm ok with things.

Do I ever disagree with them over other non-scene things? Yes. Fairly regularly. And we work out a compromise. It's that whole give-and-take thing that comes with being in an adult relationship.

Thank you for answering my questions.

 

[BLoved]

I don't understand why you are confused.

I take it you do not want to answer.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Does anyone remember Ken Starr?

He's the guy who went after Clinton to prove he was financially crooked but settled for convicting him for lying about a blowjob.

Bloved dropped in to tell us that subs are all in danger... but now he's going after some clubs that are asking for fees or donations. it's classic shit, he's fishing for any reason to castigate "the casual BDSM community."

Newt Gingrich can't be far behind.

 

[BLoved]

Oy. Ok, you have private parties -- friends getting together, no groups involved.

You have small public parties - held in a rented out club or a person's home, nominal fee charged to cover costs, hosted by a regional/local bdsm organization.

You have major events - BR, Dark Odyssey, Shibaricon, TesFest, Floating World... Those cost more money because they're more than one day, typically held at a hotel, include multiple classes in the day and parties at night.

You have bdsm night clubs like the Citadel. That's a whole other thing with which I'm not that familiar, but it's for profit.

And where is all this money coming from: the people who pass muster through one munch and then get invited to the 'play parties'?

 

[Stella_Omega]

And you've been hammering away at me ever since.

Obviously my opinion means a great deal to you, that you should obsess so much over my opinion of your relationship.

he's right, CM. Why should you care what a flake thinks about you?

I hereby request that you stop worrying about it. Everyone else got the message anyway.

 

[Stella_Omega]

And where is all this money coming from: the people who pass muster through one munch and then get invited to the 'play parties'?

See? Fishing. Now it's going to be about the MONEY.

It's ridiculous.

 

[WriterDom]

You'd be hard pressed to find any organization or club without some dues, membership fees or at least passing the hat. Bloved, with his usual flair for the dramatics, is trying to build a case for a bdsm prostitution conspiracy.

At least he is off the 16 year old girls kick that went on most of last night.

I still say the lone wolf behind a computer screen is more dangerous than any organized bdsm event. Casual love attracted more lonely women with self esteem issues than all the whips and paddles ever made.

And I haven't even called him a name yet. I do own him a few.

~farts~

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't understand why you are confused. http://www.br.org/ Black Rose is non-profit and it's volunteer-run. No person receives the profits. The money goes back into the group to pay for events, educational programs, etc.

That's not to say there aren't "for profit" operations out there. Bdsm brick and mortar clubs are another story.



I was talking about the weekly classes.

Thank you for your answer.

Fixed it for you.

~smile~

 

[intothewoods]

I take it you do not want to answer.

I'm happy to answer anything. What would you like to know that I'm not telling you? Who physically collects the money?

 

[intothewoods]

And where is all this money coming from: the people who pass muster through one munch and then get invited to the 'play parties'?

All this money? Small parties are about $15.

I can't speak for others, but I earn my money from a job.

 

[BLoved]

I'm happy to answer anything. What would you like to know that I'm not telling you? Who physically collects the money?

I'm sure if folks follow the thread back they'll find I asked you the same question twice, and both times you failed to answer.

Life goes on.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm sure if folks follow the thread back they'll find I asked you the same question twice, and both times you failed to answer.

Life goes on.

Just answer her question, you rude person.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

Your lust for drama is showing.

I'm not saying anything she doesn't already know.

Really?

you blame an abuse victim for not being as aware of herself as she portrayed and yet you didn't take an ounce of blame for not noticing yourself.

As I have proved, I noticed it after a single post from her.

So, maybe you just did not pay close enough attention.

Nice way to treat your ex-"beloved" and an abuse victim.

I think she has been through enough in her life without having you piling on.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm sure if folks follow the thread back they'll find I asked you the same question twice, and both times you failed to answer.

Life goes on.

I provided an answer, but evidently it's not the answer that you want. You asked, who gets the money. I answered that the organization does. That's how non-profits work, and you asked me about a non-profit. In a for-profit situation, expenses are paid for, and then the owners of the club or whoever threw the event gets the money. Does that answer your question, or am I still failing you?

I've endeavored to be as clear as possible in this conversation, so please let me know what other specifics I can provide you with.

 

[BLoved]

I provided an answer, but evidently it's not the answer that you want. You asked, who gets the money. I answered that the organization does. That's how non-profits work, and you asked me about a non-profit. In a for-profit situation, expenses are paid for, and then the owners of the club or whoever threw the event gets the money. Does that answer your question, or am I still failing you?

I've endeavored to be as clear as possible in this conversation, so please let me know what other specifics I can provide you with.

You said:

Black Rose is an old group in DC. They charge membership fees - those fees go to pay for weekly classes that are free or low cost to the community.

I asked:

And where is this money going, exactly? Who ends up getting it?

You said:

I'm not on the board, since I'm not that involved in the scene, but my understanding is that there is a group of volunteers who run things. They collect money, it goes in a safe, it's brought back out to pay for parties.

I said:

Wait a minute.

You said:

Other groups are different. Black Rose is an old group in DC. They charge membership fees - those fees go to pay for weekly classes that are free or low cost to the community.

Who is getting that money?

You said:

I don't understand why you are confused. http://www.br.org/ Black Rose is non-profit and it's volunteer-run. No person receives the profits. The money goes back into the group to pay for events, educational programs, etc.

I will repeat the question a third time:

You said:

Other groups are different. Black Rose is an old group in DC. They charge membership fees - those fees go to pay for weekly classes that are free or low cost to the community.

Who is getting that money?

 

[Stella_Omega]

He wants to know what costs Black Rose pays out in the course of hosting the classes.

Rental for the hall, I would expect. Possibly-- not positive, but travel expenses for out-of-town teachers.

Maybe some cases of bottled water sodas and a few bags of pretzels.

And let us not forget that we have to pay off the town police so that we can spirit away our newly recruited subs into that living hell we call casual BDSM.

Really, that's where most of the money goes, BLVD.

 

[Chgris]

No clue about the BR but in general if an event or class/program is free of charge for the participants, then the organization putting the event on taps into their funds to pay for catering costs, security if needed, and any fees the speakers/instructors/presenters might charge.

And before you go leaping to conclusions, that's the standard routine for *any* event hosted by *any* organization.

 

[rida]

@Beloved: considering you have been accusing each and every person that "casually play" with anyone without knowing for sure that the other individual in no way suffers from low self esteem to be an abuser, and that expecting self awareness and responsibility from the above mentioned individual is akin to blame the victim, we can see your own double standard:

Misreading your partner during the pursue of love is indeed the victim's fault ("she was not as self-aware as she portrayed herself to be"); while misreading your partner during casual encounters is instead the Dominant being an abuser.

And I'm not even going into the fact that you ignore that not all submissive are angelic lamb of innocence. This is not blaming the victims or the weaker side (with a 200lb male sub and a 110lb Domme, who is physically weaker here?), it is recognizing that there are abusive people with hidden agendas in any walk of life and with any inclination.

One more thing: I do not consider "love not blossoming" among play partners to be inherently wrong. The scope is different. And I'll keep on disagreeing that anything short of love should be the reason why people play, sexually or otherwise, with each other.

 

[intothewoods]

Who is getting that money?

Oh, I see. That money = money for classes. Thank you for clarifying. For the most part it goes to rent the room. The classes/presentation are held in a conference room at a hotel.

They are weekly presentations, so there's a huge range, because it's difficult to come up with new things on that kind of basis. Beyond renting the room, I think they'll pay travel fare for presenters. Some people can command a fee, but I think that's essentially folks who have published a book. Most are not paid, other than travel fare. And there's no play going on with these classes other than for demo purposes. One of my friends taught a class called something like Fetish Clothing on a Budget. No play. Just a talk and people modeling clothes. As I said before, there's a wide range of topics.

 

[intothewoods]

He wants to know what costs Black Rose pays out in the course of hosting the classes.

Rental for the hall, I would expect. Possibly-- not positive, but travel expenses for out-of-town teachers.

Maybe some cases of bottled water sodas and a few bags of pretzels.

Yep, that about sums it up.

 

[BLoved]

Misreading your partner during the pursue of love is indeed the victim's fault ("she was not as self-aware as she portrayed herself to be"); while misreading your partner during casual encounters is instead the Dominant being an abuser.

You seem to be overlooking one very big difference.

I took weeks talking with my beloved to learn more about her before we talked of living together.

According to FurryFury, anyone who can chit-chat through one munch can be invited to a 'play party'.

I took my responsibility to do the best I could to make sure this would be a good fit for both of us seriously.

Chit-chatting through one munch is not what I'd call a serious effort to screen out anyone who might be damaged by casual 'bdsm'.