Tal's Thread. Fuck yeah.

[iLackBrainCells]

You paid for the last one! What was it, yorkshire pudding in a bun??? Let it go!

Hmm, so basically... the person who enjoyed it the most should pay?

I know I'm a bit "too independent", and that this feeds into everything. This is why I genuinely don't know if it should be a good thing to be teaching boys this. But I have issue with the term "gentleman" anyway, as it's been my experience that many men who label themselves as this, think it's about the stuff like kissing hands, opening doors, etc. But they often fall at the hurdles that matter: like actual respect and real thoughtfulness. So, what IS being a gentleman? To open the door for a woman he's with and no-one else (esp other men!)?

Did I? I can't remember!

To be honest, I'd like to call myself a gentleman but I don't do the whole, kissing hands and all that. Like you say, it's just respect. If you don't respect the person, you can't have any sort of relationship.

 

[lakesailer_mi]

Hey

Well I've always been taught to pay for a lady - it's respectful. I can see how women feel though - wanting to pay their way. Like sneaking off to the toilets and paying the bill before you return.

When I go through a door, I hold it open for men as well as women. It's just the polite thing to do.

Hey

I do have sympathy for you male species, as there isn't a "standard" rule to play by. Some women - like myself, as you know, prefers an equal footing, while others do (as FB shows) do like to be treated as a 'lady'. My stance is not to say that I'd never let a man pay, but I'd want to pay sometimes. Haha! You're never going to let that go, are ya? The way I see it, why should a dude stump the bill, just cos he's a dude? If I have more money than him (shocking!) then I'd feel guilty that he has to use what little he has just because it's expected?

You paid for the last one! What was it, yorkshire pudding in a bun??? Let it go!

Hmm, so basically... the person who enjoyed it the most should pay?

I know I'm a bit "too independent", and that this feeds into everything. This is why I genuinely don't know if it should be a good thing to be teaching boys this. But I have issue with the term "gentleman" anyway, as it's been my experience that many men who label themselves as this, think it's about the stuff like kissing hands, opening doors, etc. But they often fall at the hurdles that matter: like actual respect and real thoughtfulness. So, what IS being a gentleman? To open the door for a woman he's with and no-one else (esp other men!)?

I'll jump in. Like Brainy, I grew up with "the man always pays."

I changed my mind some when my daughter started dating. She said it sort of feels like "being paid" for being out on the date. And certainly we all know guys who feel "entitled to something" if they bought dinner.

It seems to me though that the person who invited the other, should pay.

E.g. if I say, "Would you go to dinner with me" then, I'm obligated to buy, as I made the invitation.

 

[lakesailer_mi]

Did I? I can't remember!

To be honest, I'd like to call myself a gentleman but I don't do the whole, kissing hands and all that. Like you say, it's just respect. If you don't respect the person, you can't have any sort of relationship.

YES...there you have it.

 

[Mindfondler]

When I go through a door, I hold it open for men as well as women. It's just the polite thing to do.

I'm just the same. It's a non-issue for me, as far as perceived sexism is concerned. I'll override my politeness, though, when I'm in a building with controlled access and I don't recognise the person following me. That feels very un-British, but it has to be done.

This was at school. The girls did make it dangerous and I use to stay on the sideline. With the mix group it was safe to join in and tackle to ball.

Heh! I enjoyed playing hockey at school. Once I had a stick in my hand, it was my excuse to charge like a maniac at the boys who had previously been bullying me, with plausible deniability that I was "going for the ball". I was far from weedy, and they usually let me have the ball.
.

 

[lakesailer_mi]

I'm just the same. It's a non-issue for me, as far as perceived sexism is concerned. I'll override my politeness, though, when I'm in a building with controlled access and I don't recognise the person following me. That feels very un-British, but it has to be done.

I always hold doors for people. It just seems rude not to.

I got yelled at once by a young woman. She gave me the whole "I'm not weak, I can open my own door." thing.
I let her go through and held it for the guy behind her too who was laughing. We both shook our heads.

 

[iLackBrainCells]

I agree with everything said above me. I'm just too lazy to quote it all.

 

[papadoc19]

*Peeks in*

 

[Tallulah82]

Did I? I can't remember!

To be honest, I'd like to call myself a gentleman but I don't do the whole, kissing hands and all that. Like you say, it's just respect. If you don't respect the person, you can't have any sort of relationship.

I'll jump in. Like Brainy, I grew up with "the man always pays."

I changed my mind some when my daughter started dating. She said it sort of feels like "being paid" for being out on the date. And certainly we all know guys who feel "entitled to something" if they bought dinner.

It seems to me though that the person who invited the other, should pay.

E.g. if I say, "Would you go to dinner with me" then, I'm obligated to buy, as I made the invitation.

YES...there you have it.

Ok, that's fair enough rules: whom ever does the inviting, pays. I'd accept that. And yes, if the guy always paid for everything, it would be difficult to not feel like I was being lined up in the "repayment" expectations.

I have had the line "you at least owe me that" used on me before. Fortunately for him, it wasn't for sex. He'd have been ball-less by now, if it were.

 

[lakesailer_mi]

I agree with everything said above me. I'm just too lazy to quote it all.

Dude...I laughed out loud at this...thanks...

 

[Tallulah82]

I'm just the same. It's a non-issue for me, as far as perceived sexism is concerned. I'll override my politeness, though, when I'm in a building with controlled access and I don't recognise the person following me. That feels very un-British, but it has to be done.

<snip>
.

I always hold doors for people. It just seems rude not to.

I got yelled at once by a young woman. She gave me the whole "I'm not weak, I can open my own door." thing.
I let her go through and held it for the guy behind her too who was laughing. We both shook our heads.

*Peeks in*

This is the point, isn't it?! Not to teach positive discrimination, but to teach politeness to everyone. If you were a guy who ONLY opened doors for women, then I'd have something to say. But your comment LS about the indignant woman is what I said earlier - about the rules being different for every single woman.

Hey papadoc, good to see you in here

Ok, just disappearing for a few minutes. Back soon

 

[iLackBrainCells]

Dude...I laughed out loud at this...thanks...

You're welcome.

Hey Papadoc.

 

[lakesailer_mi]

This is the point, isn't it?! Not to teach positive discrimination, but to teach politeness to everyone. If you were a guy who ONLY opened doors for women, then I'd have something to say. But your comment LS about the indignant woman is what I said earlier - about the rules being different for every single woman.

Hey papadoc, good to see you in here

Ok, just disappearing for a few minutes. Back soon

Yeah, they are. I think it's an important point. But it's not "rules" really, you know?
We all come to any relationship (whether it be the briefest as you hold a door for someone you've never met and will never see again, or a lifelong partnership) with all our baggage, history, values and opinions. Sometimes those values and opinions clash dramatically, sometimes they mesh beautifully.

They say, actually, that the leading cause of divorce (at least in the U.S. I don't know Brit stats on this, I'll ask when I get there), is actually financial incompatibility. Such different views on money, and how to handle it, that the marriage ends. If you think about this minor thing (who pays) in that context.
Actually, it would be good if people started talking about that, right on the first date.

 

[iLackBrainCells]

Ok, just disappearing for a few minutes. Back soon

Mine is a sandwich a glass of Coke please.

 

[Tallulah82]

Yeah, they are. I think it's an important point. But it's not "rules" really, you know?
We all come to any relationship (whether it be the briefest as you hold a door for someone you've never met and will never see again, or a lifelong partnership) with all our baggage, history, values and opinions. Sometimes those values and opinions clash dramatically, sometimes they mesh beautifully.

They say, actually, that the leading cause of divorce (at least in the U.S. I don't know Brit stats on this, I'll ask when I get there), is actually financial incompatibility. Such different views on money, and how to handle it, that the marriage ends. If you think about this minor thing (who pays) in that context.
Actually, it would be good if people started talking about that, right on the first date.

Yes, I'm pretty sure it's money that tops the charts here, too. And I can understand why when I hear some of the stories from extended family, and friends. In some cases I've sat and thought "I don't know how you can live like this?"... This said - they might have better sex-lives than me. So, I'm not totally not-envious of them

Mine is a sandwich a glass of Coke please.

Ha! It was cheese and crackers, or pate and toast. That was today's options.

 

[iLackBrainCells]

Yes, I'm pretty sure it's money that tops the charts here, too. And I can understand why when I hear some of the stories from extended family, and friends. In some cases I've sat and thought "I don't know how you can live like this?"... This said - they might have better sex-lives than me. So, I'm not totally not-envious of them



Ha! It was cheese and crackers, or pate and toast. That was today's options.

Pfft. I'll pass

 

[Tallulah82]

Pfft. I'll pass

It was supposed to be bacon butties, but the boys wanted crackers. You were so close to being pleased. Too bad!

 

[iLackBrainCells]

It was supposed to be bacon butties, but the boys wanted crackers. You were so close to being pleased. Too bad!

BACON!!!

Now I'm hungry... Next time it's bacon and let the boys go hungry. *nods*

 

[Tallulah82]

BACON!!!

Now I'm hungry...

I have stupid amounts of bacon in the house atm, because of stupid morrisons messing up the stupid Christmas order.

We've decided that if we're not totally destitute next Christmas, we're going to try M&S food order service. If we ARE destitute, then we're going to KFC for Christmas dinner.

 

[justasimplegirl]

This is the point, isn't it?! Not to teach positive discrimination, but to teach politeness to everyone. If you were a guy who ONLY opened doors for women, then I'd have something to say. But your comment LS about the indignant woman is what I said earlier - about the rules being different for every single woman.

Hey papadoc, good to see you in here

Ok, just disappearing for a few minutes. Back soon

I agree, politeness to all is the way to go.

What bothers me most about the story you referenced is that he's being made to pay with money he earned doing chores.

"Here, son, do this work. Well done, here's some cash as a reward. Oh wait, you don't actually get to keep that money, you are now required to spend it on me."

So ... he didn't actually earn anything. I mean, if it weren't date night with mom and the two were at a restaurant, who would pay? Mom. So mom makes him do chores and then takes him out to dinner as a reward. That's what's happening here. The money starts with her and ends with her. If I were that kid, I'd call BS immediately. He's clearly not the sharpest crayon in the box.

Is that mean? I think I need more coffee.

 

[iLackBrainCells]

I have stupid amounts of bacon in the house atm, because of stupid morrisons messing up the stupid Christmas order.

We've decided that if we're not totally destitute next Christmas, we're going to try M&S food order service. If we ARE destitute, then we're going to KFC for Christmas dinner.

Morrison's are notorious at messing up orders. Ours do it all the time. Sending me flippin' Weetabix. Grrr.

I've done the M&S food order service once but found it a bit faffy. Plus, things were wildly overpriced. I paid close to £25 for a lobster and prawn platter that left a lot to be desired. I found out after I could buy a fresh, live Lobster from my local fishmonger for a tenner and it was double the size.

KFC Christmas dinner. Think your in-laws would love that.

 

[Tallulah82]

I agree, politeness to all is the way to go.

What bothers me most about the story you referenced is that he's being made to pay with money he earned doing chores.

"Here, son, do this work. Well done, here's some cash as a reward. Oh wait, you don't actually get to keep that money, you are now required to spend it on me."

So ... he didn't actually earn anything. I mean, if it weren't date night with mom and the two were at a restaurant, who would pay? Mom. So mom makes him do chores and then takes him out to dinner as a reward. That's what's happening here. The money starts with her and ends with her. If I were that kid, I'd call BS immediately. He's clearly not the sharpest crayon in the box.

Is that mean? I think I need more coffee.

No, I picked up on that too. I didn't think that it was fair that he earned it, then was forced to spend it taking his mum out. It's wrong on a few levels.

It's not mean. OR. If it is, then we'll be mean together

 

[justasimplegirl]

No, I picked up on that too. I didn't think that it was fair that he earned it, then was forced to spend it taking his mum out. It's wrong on a few levels.

It's not mean. OR. If it is, then we'll be mean together

*chest bump*

I do mean well.

 

[Tallulah82]

Morrison's are notorious at messing up orders. Ours do it all the time. Sending me flippin' Weetabix. Grrr.

I've done the M&S food order service once but found it a bit faffy. Plus, things were wildly overpriced. I paid close to £25 for a lobster and prawn platter that left a lot to be desired. I found out after I could buy a fresh, live Lobster from my local fishmonger for a tenner and it was double the size.

KFC Christmas dinner. Think your in-laws would love that.

Oooh, look at you, Mr Fancy Pants!

I've never bought real M&S food yet. Only treats as gifts, really. I was in before Christmas buying some fancy over-priced chocs for school staff and I thought I'd treat myself to a meal deal. I'm not a real fussy eater, but I didn't get one because out of the choice of 10 sandwiches, they were all totally OTT on the combinations - everything with pesto, or prawn puree, or other minging tasting crap smothered on it. Whatever happened to simple food???

 

[iLackBrainCells]

Oooh, look at you, Mr Fancy Pants!

I've never bought real M&S food yet. Only treats as gifts, really. I was in before Christmas buying some fancy over-priced chocs for school staff and I thought I'd treat myself to a meal deal. I'm not a real fussy eater, but I didn't get one because out of the choice of 10 sandwiches, they were all totally OTT on the combinations - everything with pesto, or prawn puree, or other minging tasting crap smothered on it. Whatever happened to simple food???

'zactly. You know how fussy I am - but I think most people would baulk at some of the stuff they do.

I has fancy pants you know..m I just don't often wear them.

 

[Tallulah82]

*chest bump*

I do mean well.

LOL! Me too! I'm not a bitch (most of the time) on purpose! I just erm... can't keep some of my thoughts (most of them) to myself... and have a little issue with uhm...bluntness