Wives Loving Wives

[EmilyMiller]

the massive prevalence of physical or psychological violence committed by women against men

Are you fucking serious?

 

[Ianus4]

Are you fucking serious?

Deadly.
https://worldmetrics.org/male-domestic-abuse-statistics/
"Only 12% of male victims are included in official domestic violence statistics in the U.S., per 2021 CDC data."

 

[Cagivagurl]

My problem is exactly the opposite of this.
It's sad that many people refer to this as such, since most of these behavioral patterns can be observed just as easily in many women who are not at all masculine. For example, I know of a case among my close acquaintances where, during a marital argument, the wife slapped her husband on several occasions, and he did not retaliate in kind. The woman was middle-class and had a certain social status. Neither her father nor her grandfather was violent, yet it was common in the family to speak disparagingly about men in general (see misandry). Is this what toxic masculinity is?
Toxic masculinity is a misleading term. Because in many people’s minds, the "toxic" part gets erased, and "masculinity" is equated with these bad behavioral patterns.
And it’s also a devilish term because it makes it impossible to reduce the massive prevalence of physical or psychological violence committed by women against men. Not talking about marital violence committed by women, and even mocking it: well, that is truly patriarchy and sexism, but do only men commit this?
Homophobia and transphobia: JKR? The issue of trans people using public restrooms and being placed in prison? The latter could mean a death sentence for a trans woman. Is toxic masculinity fueling this issue?
Are we sure that every mother is so happy when her daughter wants to be a wrestler, or say, a car mechanic?
Calling these things toxic masculinity is like associating certain crimes with a specific skin color, religion, or ethnicity.

It’s just a sad joke that there’s a translation program that translates "misandry" as "misogyny" in certain languages.

But the answer is simple: there are good and bad people in every gender.

What a load of crap....
Did you actually write. the massive prevalence of physical or psychological violence committed by women against men.
Holy shit... I am sure there are women who have abused men physically, and psychologically. However. To compare it to the harm men impose on women around the world every day is preposterous...
Misogyny yes I think so.
Merely my opinion of course...

 

[Ianus4]

What a load of crap....
Did you actually write. the massive prevalence of physical or psychological violence committed by women against men.
Holy shit... I am sure there are women who have abused men physically, and psychologically. However. To compare it to the harm men impose on women around the world every day is preposterous...
Misogyny yes I think so.
Merely my opinion of course...

No one has claimed that domestic violence affects far more women than men. Even so, the number of male victims is significant, and the underreporting rate is much higher.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Deadly.
https://worldmetrics.org/male-domestic-abuse-statistics/
"Only 12% of male victims are included in official domestic violence statistics in the U.S., per 2021 CDC data."

There is no point discussing this further with you.

 

[Ianus4]

There is no point discussing this further with you.

And especially when it comes to statistics.

 

[EmilyMiller]

And especially when it comes to statistics.

Yeah women can’t do math. We all have our crosses to bear. I’m glad we have men to explain those pesky numbers to us. Over to you for the last word on whataboutism.

 

[Ianus4]

Yeah women can’t do math. We all have our crosses to bear. I’m glad we have men to explain those pesky numbers to us. Over to you for the last word on whataboutism.

You still aren't talking about the data. Never mind.

 

[Stanfield2025]

Let me reframe the question. I have a story where I share a vibrator with my best friend. That's not even what the story is about. I just use that experience to describe my relationship with my best friend.

We did not consider that having sex. It was just two young girls exploring their bodies, and we only had access to one vibrator so we had to share.

I'll share a link. Read that story, and then tell me - if Sarah and I did that now and you were her husband.. If you walked in on us, would you want us to stop, or would it turn you on? If we saw you watching and moved from sharing a vibrator - one of us using it at a time - to using it on one another, and then to having sex, would it bother you, or turn you on?

I'm going to guess 90% of men would not want us to stop. And from the feedback on that story, if I wrote an alternate universe where Sarah and I became lesbos who occasionally asked men to play prop, it would be very popular.

I might try that too. It would be true fiction but that might be fun to try writing.

https://www.literotica.com/s/our-first-threesome-pt-01-1

If I were the husband, more than likely I'd consider it infidelity.

 

[Stanfield2025]

How is two girls sharing a vibrator cheating if they are not touching each other or using the vibrator on each other? Don't guys masturbate in front of each other when you watch porn? I'll bet you don't consider THAT cheating.

I've never seen guys do that outside of comedy sketches or comics. I've certainly never done that, and I'd never do that. Especially if I had a girlfriend. And if I did do it, she'd be 100% in the right to consider it cheating, especially if we hadn't discussed it beforehand.

 

[Lifestyle66]

... the massive prevalence of physical or psychological violence committed by women against men. ...

I think many people ignore the terms like "pussy whipped", thinking that's another of those "toxic masculinity" putdowns.

They refuse to acknowledge that there ARE men out there who've been beaten down by women. I know a few of them. And there's a whole sub-genre of BDSM where wives humiliate their husbands!

Just food for thought.

"It takes all kinds" (including the ignorant.)

 

[Stanfield2025]

I think many people ignore the terms like "pussy whipped", thinking that's another of those "toxic masculinity" putdowns.

They refuse to acknowledge that there ARE men out there who've been beaten down by women. I know a few of them.

Just food for thought.

"It takes all kinds" (including the ignorant.)

The issue here is that the original discussion was on toxic masculinity. The discussion of men being beaten down by women is mostly irrelevant, and it's being invoked here to distract from the original points being made about toxic masculinity.

And I'm someone who actually cares about male victims not reporting domestic abuse. It's a disservice to these victims to weaponize them against discussions of toxic masculinity.

 

[Lifestyle66]

The issue here is that the original discussion was on toxic masculinity. The discussion of men being beaten down by women is mostly irrelevant, and it's being invoked here to distract from the original points being made about toxic masculinity.

And I'm someone who actually cares about male victims not reporting domestic abuse. It's a disservice to these victims to weaponize them against discussions of toxic masculinity.

Really? The ORIGINAL discussion was something about toxic masculinity???

Try looking back at page 1 and the OP's post! It certainly had very little to do with masculinity of any kind, dealing with a potential story of a lesbian couple.

EDIT: And as I said, I know some male victims, and the disservice is to IGNORE that aspect of the discussion or downplay it.

 

[Stanfield2025]

Really? The ORIGINAL discussion was something about toxic masculinity???

Try looking back at page 1 and the OP's post! It certainly had very little to do with masculinity of any kind.

You know what I mean. The discussion right before female-on-male domestic abuse got brought up was about toxic masculinity.

Can we have some good faith here?

 

[Lifestyle66]

You know what I mean. The discussion right before female-on-male domestic abuse got brought up was about toxic masculinity.

Can we have some good faith here?

In good faith, ... some others were deriding a much longer post from another and cherry-picking that sentence fragment to attack.

 

[Stanfield2025]

In good faith, ... some others were deriding a much longer post from another and cherry-picking that sentence fragment to attack.

Sigh, if that's how you want it, whatever.

 

[RetroFan]

I wrote a LW story about cheating in a lesbian marriage - it is comfortably my worst rated story at 3.49️.

I also wrote a hetero LW story currently sitting at 4.64️, which is like 4.94️ in a normal category.

In general, I have 23 stories (in other categories) at 4.75️ or above, so it wasn’t an issue with the quality of my writing.

Abandon hope all ye who enter here…

Might I ask how many pages your lesbian story in Loving Wives was?

Apparently there are strict rules in the LW category for lesbian stories about story length and quality of the story. If you choose to write a bad lesbian story in LW, then you have maximum 3 pages to complete it. If however you write a good lesbian LW story, you can write more pages.

Unfortunately I made the mistake of thinking that my 11 page story about a feminist lesbian finding out her brother's wife is cheating all over town but ending up in bed with her when she confronts her about her infidelity was a good story, and I only found out after it was published that it was in fact a bad story.

The story ratings mostly averaged about 2.95 in the five years since I posted it but later boosted to about 3.05, perhaps some readers gave it 5 stars or there was a sweep. And the comments were negative, to say the least.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

You still aren't talking about the data. Never mind.

They won't talk about the data because it doesn't fit their narrative.
Awhile back there were several peer reviewed studies posted showing how domestic violence is more common in Lesbian relationships than hetero ones. The usual suspects lost their minds, and did all kinds of contortions to deny a simple obvious truth supported by hard data.

 

[njlauren]

Agreed - but not my point. Many men who treat women like dirt had fathers who were present growing up. Maybe those fathers weren’t great role models, maybe they were. Either way people are responsible for their own behavior.

They are, and the biggest one is something most people have trouble with, realizing why their behavior is bad and often it is what they picked up from their parents. Parents often say "do as I say, not as I do" but that doesn't work, kids pattern behavior after their parents. If dad is horrible to mom, I don't mean outright abusive, but puts her own, comments on the way she looks, or acts like her whole existence should be him, the kids pick that up. Girls pick up from mom and dad what they are supposed to be. It doesn't mean what they do as an adult is right or they aren't responsible, if people tell you your behavior is hurting them or making them feel uncomfortable, it is the persons duty to find out why they are behaving like that. If they feel it isn't wrong, then the person complaining has to make clear it is unacceptable and walk away if need be.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Might I ask how many pages your lesbian story in Loving Wives was?

Apparently there are strict rules in the LW category for lesbian stories about story length and quality of the story. If you choose to write a bad lesbian story in LW, then you have maximum 3 pages to complete it. If however you write a good lesbian LW story, you can write more pages.

Unfortunately I made the mistake of thinking that my 11 page story about a feminist lesbian finding out her brother's wife is cheating all over town but ending up in bed with her when she confronts her about her infidelity was a good story, and I only found out after it was published that it was in fact a bad story.

The story ratings mostly averaged about 2.95 in the five years since I posted it but later boosted to about 3.05, perhaps some readers gave it 5 stars or there was a sweep. And the comments were negative, to say the least.

7,800 words and three pages. And I have zero concerns about any LW ‘rules.’

 

[EmilyMiller]

They are, and the biggest one is something most people have trouble with, realizing why their behavior is bad and often it is what they picked up from their parents. Parents often say "do as I say, not as I do" but that doesn't work, kids pattern behavior after their parents. If dad is horrible to mom, I don't mean outright abusive, but puts her own, comments on the way she looks, or acts like her whole existence should be him, the kids pick that up. Girls pick up from mom and dad what they are supposed to be. It doesn't mean what they do as an adult is right or they aren't responsible, if people tell you your behavior is hurting them or making them feel uncomfortable, it is the persons duty to find out why they are behaving like that. If they feel it isn't wrong, then the person complaining has to make clear it is unacceptable and walk away if need be.

Me and dad are still best buddies, I think my SO shares some of his gentle and reasonable qualities (maybe I have daddy issues ).

I love my mom fiercely, but we have a difficult relationship. She’s not as easygoing as dad (more like me, I guess) and is more critical. Then she’d say it’s because she expects a lot of me.

 

[Stanfield2025]

Might I ask how many pages your lesbian story in Loving Wives was?

Apparently there are strict rules in the LW category for lesbian stories about story length and quality of the story. If you choose to write a bad lesbian story in LW, then you have maximum 3 pages to complete it. If however you write a good lesbian LW story, you can write more pages.

Unfortunately I made the mistake of thinking that my 11 page story about a feminist lesbian finding out her brother's wife is cheating all over town but ending up in bed with her when she confronts her about her infidelity was a good story, and I only found out after it was published that it was in fact a bad story.

The story ratings mostly averaged about 2.95 in the five years since I posted it but later boosted to about 3.05, perhaps some readers gave it 5 stars or there was a sweep. And the comments were negative, to say the least.

This isn't much of a helpful rule. I assume by the time most writers publish their story, they think it's good.

 

[LargoKitt]

What do you mean by boys' club game?

Well, to sterotype a little , let's start with the Girls' Club game: Women in a work, sport, fun group situation will check in with each other. Make sure everyone is okay and on board. Talk a lot. Listen a lot. Boys' Club etiquette: Check out the hierarchy, be as 'big' as you can be, get to the point, try to win a few, insult as a way to be friendly. Stuff like that. Lot's of women in business, or medicine, or sports or whatever have to show they have a big balls as any guy in the room in order to be taken seriously.

 

[LargoKitt]

This has nothing to do with patriarchy; it’s simply genetics and primal instincts. A female can always be certain that her offspring carry her genes. A male can never be certain of this; in a civilized society, this can only be conceived of on the basis of trust. That is why the unshakability of trust is incredibly important. @NoTalentHack puts this very well in one of his stories, noting this situation is just as unimaginable for a straight woman as PPD is for a man. If a woman’s child is mistakenly switched at the hospital, it’s a scandal; it makes the news. If a man raises another man’s biological child as a result of his spouse’s infidelity, the media calls it a “tradition”—something that has always existed.
It’s also hard to blame patriarchy for the fact that a significant portion of women in society yearn for so-called bad guys. The male protagonists of countless women’s bestsellers are arrogant, rich, and handsome men. In these stories, the female protagonist is “inexplicably” drawn to the man despite his arrogance. Of course, in these stories, the female protagonist eventually “tames” the man. Once again, these are bestsellers written by women, for women. So these desires are real and common. From here on out, it’s just a matter of supply and demand - just as in real life.

Consider the source. I think the stats show that women *marry* men who are reliable. If he is also a hottie, great. But she does want to tame him. 'Breast seller' books for women are stories about what they *don't get*. Her hubby is a happy reliable chubby. He fantasy is a lean 'do it and leave it' pirate. She gets to pretend she is the heroine so hot he crumbles to his knees. Mother Nature doesn't care about fidelity. Sure, alpha male wants to keep his harem. But Mom counts on hunky males sneaking in and spreading the diversity.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Well, to sterotype a little , let's start with the Girls' Club game: Women in a work, sport, fun group situation will check in with each other. Make sure everyone is okay and on board. Talk a lot. Listen a lot. Boys' Club etiquette: Check out the hierarchy, be as 'big' as you can be, get to the point, try to win a few, insult as a way to be friendly. Stuff like that. Lot's of women in business, or medicine, or sports or whatever have to show they have a big balls as any guy in the room in order to be taken seriously.

Talk to some male nurses about what it is like when the shoe is on the other foot.