Do guns make us more safe?

[TrailerHitch]

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Annnnnnd TrailerTrash aka KiotiUgly aka ??? is back to playing the disingenuous idiot that wants to find “solutions” to America’s gun violence problem.

JFC

SAD!!!

Yawn...keep blathering because it is all you have.

But do tell us your miraculous cure all for this problem. One that doesn't infringe on law abiding gun owners rights and yet solves the gun violence problem.

 

[TrailerHitch]

I'm ok with compromising with angry people who want to compromise. When you're both working towards a solution, the animosity is easily turned towards a goal. Animosity doesn't stop progress and many times accelerates it.

Nonsense, I try to make suggestions and you and others pounce on me instead of saying this part might work, this part won't, you tear apart everything I post.

 

[CuttingEdge]

So what's your point? Are you trying to say a 12 gauge isn't good for self defence? Talk about going on a tangent about who, or what shape the burglars in. This is about the defender, who just got woken up, half asleep, you think they are going to pull a Harry Callahan, or are they going to be better off having a shotgun?

Sorry I was not clear...

A lot of people mistakenly think the sound of a shotgun racking a round is all they need to scare off an intruder, and that is just not the case. While it would for anyone who is sane, any sane person would not go into someone's house either, because you never know what lies on the other side of the door. Most likely they are going to be hoped up on drugs, with little rationale.

I have successfully driven off an intruder at 2 AM with a shotgun, and it is loaded with #8 buckshot so that it will decimate anything in front of it, but not penetrate walls so that someone behind one would get injured or killed. But that is not my only gun in my house, and for good reason. What a homeowner loads their weapons with has a lot to do with effectiveness too. My AR-15's are loaded with soft lead, subsonic rounds, hollow points, and then super-sonic armor piercing rounds; in that 3-round configuration down through their stacks. That gives me a lot of options. My pistols all have hollow points...

 

[Dribble]

Trailer boy is a liar. Why anyone involves themselves in attempting a discourse with him is beyond me. He lies. What more do you need to know? One can never be sure what he says is truth or lie.

 

[ll74]

Nonsense, I try to make suggestions and you and others pounce on me instead of saying this part might work, this part won't, you tear apart everything I post.

What part of compromise do you not understand?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Sorry I was not clear...

A lot of people mistakenly think the sound of a shotgun racking a round is all they need to scare off an intruder, and that is just not the case

I'm not talking about scaring off. Im talking about effectiveness. It's hard to miss at 10 feet with a shotgun.

Most likely they are going to be hoped up on drugs, with little rationale.

Actually not true, most are going to be done by "semi professionals" who are in and out in under 10 mins.

I have successfully driven off an intruder at 2 AM with a shotgun, and it is loaded with #8 buckshot so that it will decimate anything in front of it, but not penetrate walls so that someone behind one would get injured or killed.

Most home burglaries are done between between 10 am and 3 pm.

For the past several decades, property crime rates, including burglaries, have steadily declined. The current burglary rate, including cases of forced entry, is 75% less than it was in the 1980s. Which means while there are still far too many, they are not as much of a threat as they were 40 years ago.

What has changed since 40 years ago is the "marketing and fear factors". After all, if everyone said there is no need for home defence systems ( including firearms),who'd be out buying them?

But that is not my only gun in my house, and for good reason.

What's your good reason?

What a homeowner loads their weapons with has a lot to do with effectiveness too. My AR-15's are loaded with soft lead, subsonic rounds, hollow points, and then super-sonic armor piercing rounds; in that 3-round configuration down through their stacks. That gives me a lot of options. My pistols all have hollow points...

The above only goes to show you're a bit more in tune with your firearms than just for "home protection". I don't care what loads you use,if you can't hit the target, it doesn't matter. With a 12 gauge, accuracy of being on target isn't really a problem.

If you think handguns offer a better measure of accuracy, just go peruse Youtube. There are dozens of incidents where shots are fired from 10' or less, that hit nothing.

Speaking about the "targets", most thieves are not looking for a shoot out. They want in and out with the goods in as fast a time as possible with little risk to their own lives. (kind of why the biggest increase in theft is the "porch bandits")

 

[JackVettriano]

Guns don’t make us more safe, people who carry often act very differently than if they are unarmed.
But guns themselves are not the issue, it’s the individual who has access to them. I live in the UK and the fun laws are very strict, arguably stricter than necessary. However we have very low gun crime. Don’t ban guns, but sensible restrictions are required, in my humble opinion.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I agree we need to work on a solution, The problem is there is so much animosity involved with gun owners and anti gunners that there can never be rational discussions. Until we can find a way to reach common ground the situation is hopeless.

The animosity stems from a large number of gun owners who refuse to see past "shall not be infringed" and therefore would allow anyone to have a gun even if they told them they would use it on them.

Being angry is fine, being obstinate is not.

Thank you for proving my point so succinctly.

I'm ok with compromising with angry people who want to compromise. When you're both working towards a solution, the animosity is easily turned towards a goal. Animosity doesn't stop progress and many times accelerates it.

Hitch, both sides do need to work to a solution, and I am more in agreement with ll74 on this than you.

ll74 puts out his opinion and you just attacked him for it. If he views it that way, ie it is the gun owners being obstinate, then the answer is to show him not all gun owners are not being obstinate.

Did you? No you just made a snarky comment. That's not working together towards a solution, that is kind of proving his "opinion".

Both sides need to compromise, the "gun nuts" and the "anti-gun nuts". A middle ground needs to be staked out, one in which neither group will get everything they want.

Otherwise I am 100% confidant the 2A will be amended, and the US will lose that "right".

 

[Dribble]

One of our biggest problems is our police force. I just saw on TV the homicide solve rate for my state...54%. Why is this? People don't trust the police. They don't trust the system. So they don't pass on information to help solve crimes. Can't blame them.

People feel the need to arm themselves believing the false narrative...that they are safer. Fix the root of the problem. A flip of a fair coin is not acceptable

 

[HisArpy]

Guns don’t make us more safe, people who carry often act very differently than if they are unarmed.
But guns themselves are not the issue, it’s the individual who has access to them. I live in the UK and the fun laws are very strict, arguably stricter than necessary. However we have very low gun crime. Don’t ban guns, but sensible restrictions are required, in my humble opinion.

The UK isn't in charge of the world. The laws of the UK don't apply in other parts of the world either.

A fact which we in America know very well and which the UK seems to have forgotten.

 

[HisArpy]

Actually until 1934 when Congress passed the National Firearms Act that restricted ownership of machine guns, short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, sound suppressors (silencers), and other similar weapons that were often used by criminals during the Prohibition Era it was possible for any citizen to go down to the local hardware store/sporting goods store and buy a Thompson Submachine gun. The interesting thing here it was criminal use of these weapons, not civilian use of these weapons, that prompted the NFA.

The violence then, with far more easily accessible fully automatic weapons, was perpetrated by criminals, gangsters, mobsters, and not the average citizen shooting up the bar, club, grocery store or neighborhood. so what has changed in the make-up of society that violence by so called average citizens has taken a meteoric rise? Because if I could just walk in and buy a Tommy gun, put a 100 round drum on it I sure as heck could do some serious damage in the local nightclub if I chose to.

Gun violence from the 20's and 30's which prompted the NFA was done by the same people today who shoot up schools and nightclubs. That is; criminals.

It's not the law abiding, it's the criminals. It's those who are willing to kill to get whatever it is they want. Whether it's done for money, power, or just the satisfaction of killing, they're still nothing but criminals.

The Left seems to believe that it's the gun that makes someone a criminal. The truth is exactly the opposite and the gun is only the tool used to carry out the criminal act and intent. Removing the tool doesn't change the intent. Nor will it stop a criminal from doing whatever they plan, they will just use a different tool. One which is just as deadly but which can no longer be defended against because the Left has taken away all the tools which could be used for that.

 

[TomTeacher19]

Nor will it stop a criminal from doing whatever they plan, they will just use a different tool. One which is just as deadly

Out of curiosity, what tools specifically are just as deadly as guns that would so easily replace the guns if the guns weren't there?

 

[HisArpy]

Out of curiosity, what tools specifically are just as deadly as guns that would so easily replace the guns if the guns weren't there?

There are many ways to commit mass murder. One need only look at the middle east for examples. Tim McVeigh used just such a method in Oklahoma City. As did the Boston Marathon bombers.


Yet even those methods pale in comparison to other options which, although a lot slower, would yield mass death and destruction almost beyond comprehension.

One such method might encompass a bio weapon unleashed on an unsuspecting world. A world which denies the origin and cause and which also refuses to look at the underlying purpose and result because of political and economic pressures as well as governments which are uncaring of the welfare of their populations.

And let us not underestimate the power of a few rodents from a clandestine biolab released into the wild after intentionally being infected with historically deadly diseases. Diseases which were possibly enhanced by said clandestine biolab prior to the rodents being infected with them.

For example...

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

There are many ways to commit mass murder. One need only look at the middle east for examples. Tim McVeigh used just such a method in Oklahoma City. As did the Boston Marathon bombers.


Yet even those methods pale in comparison to other options which, although a lot slower, would yield mass death and destruction almost beyond comprehension.

One such method might encompass a bio weapon unleashed on an unsuspecting world. A world which denies the origin and cause and which also refuses to look at the underlying purpose and result because of political and economic pressures as well as governments which are uncaring of the welfare of their populations.

And let us not underestimate the power of a few rodents from a clandestine biolab released into the wild after intentionally being infected with historically deadly diseases. Diseases which were possibly enhanced by said clandestine biolab prior to the rodents being infected with them.

For example...

We already restrict bulk purchases of explosives. A simple mask mandate can defend against most bio weapon attacks.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

One such method might encompass a bio weapon unleashed on an unsuspecting world.

LMFA, you really are going to try and sell a bio-weapon??? So you're saying Steven Paddock was smart enough to figure out how to unleash a bio weapon.

And you wonder why you're viewed as the second most factually ignorant person on the PB....

 

[HisArpy]

We already restrict bulk purchases of explosives. A simple mask mandate can defend against most bio weapon attacks.

There is no deadlier weapon than someone who thinks simple solutions solve complex problems. And you, sweetheart, are just such a person.



Masks NO NOT WORK. We have studies which prove this. We have data which proves this. We have empirical evidence which proves this. This isn't conjecture or political viewpoint differences, it's FACT. Solid irrefutable FACT.


Further,

Masks WILL NOT stop a water borne disease. Or a food borne vector.

Masks will also not stop starvation when the food supply dries up because a hostile foreign nation buys all the available crop land and purchases an overabundant amount of seed stocks. Add on the limits of being able to grow crops on a commercial scale because the fertilizers needed to do so come from a single country which is being ripped apart in a war and you have food chain issues that masks can't solve.

Note that NONE OF THAT requires explosives. ANY of those will kill millions, if not billions.

And you think wearing a mask, filled with toxic chemicals from being manufactured in a country which could care less if you survive or not, will save you.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

There is no deadlier weapon than someone who thinks simple solutions solve complex problems. And you, sweetheart, are just such a person.



Masks NO NOT WORK. We have studies which prove this. We have data which proves this. We have empirical evidence which proves this. This isn't conjecture or political viewpoint differences, it's FACT. Solid irrefutable FACT.


Further,

Masks WILL NOT stop a water borne disease. Or a food borne vector.

Masks will also not stop starvation when the food supply dries up because a hostile foreign nation buys all the available crop land and purchases an overabundant amount of seed stocks. Add on the limits of being able to grow crops on a commercial scale because the fertilizers needed to do so come from a single country which is being ripped apart in a war and you have food chain issues that masks can't solve.

Note that NONE OF THAT requires explosives. ANY of those will kill millions, if not billions.

And you think wearing a mask, filled with toxic chemicals from being manufactured in a country which could care less if you survive or not, will save you.

Lay off the fucking Carbon based water there Derpy....you're getting histrionic!!

 

[DeluxAuto]

Guns make terrified simpletons *feel* better and we have a fuckload of those twerps in the US.

 

[DeluxAuto]

There is no deadlier weapon than someone who thinks simple solutions solve complex problems.

In an arena filled with your idiotic musings, this is up there with the worst of them.

 

[TrailerHitch]

What part of compromise do you not understand?

I understand the word compromise completely. You have never compromised on ANYTHING I have said regarding gun control,mental health, or punishment for gun related crimes.

 

[TrailerHitch]

We already restrict bulk purchases of explosives. A simple mask mandate can defend against most bio weapon attacks.

We don't restrict the sale of gasoline, molotov cocktails.

 

[ll74]

I understand the word compromise completely. You have never compromised on ANYTHING I have said regarding gun control,mental health, or punishment for gun related crimes.

That's completely false. I compromise all the time. In fact,.my response to you was a compromise.

But you seem to be incapable of seeing common ground unless people specifically tell you that they are showing you some. Sorry about that.

 

[HisArpy]

We don't restrict the sale of gasoline, molotov cocktails.

Or fertilizer, cars, airplanes, propane, natural gas, welding supplies, machine shops...

 

[TrailerHitch]

Or fertilizer, cars, airplanes, propane, natural gas, welding supplies, machine shops...

True enough. It isn't that hard to do online research to build an IED if you were so inclined.

 

[DeluxAuto]

Or fertilizer, cars, airplanes, propane, natural gas, welding supplies, machine shops...

Yes we do.