Do guns make us more safe?

[Buffalogurl]

I'm not questioning whether he murdered people.

Saying secured borders (an overly general statement as-is) would've somehow stopped this guy from murdering people is laughable.

1174, it took me a while to locate a few things to bring to the table...
" Angel Family " is the label given to families that are victims of illegal aliens crimes.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/201...d-by-undocumented-immigrant-backs-border-wall
Here's but one example of thousands of families devastated by illegal alien crime.
1174, I know this topic doesn't quite fit this thread so I may start a thread just involving tragedies caused by unchecked immigration so I don't derail adrina's thread....

 

[ll74]

1174, it took me a while to locate a few things to bring to the table...
" Angel Family " is the label given to families that are victims of illegal aliens crimes.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/201...d-by-undocumented-immigrant-backs-border-wall
Here's but one example of thousands of families devastated by illegal alien crime.
1174, I know this topic doesn't quite fit this thread so I may start a thread just involving tragedies caused by unchecked immigration so I don't derail adrina's thread....

Yes, there are migrants that have done bad things.

"Open borders" is just a bullshit label by the right to get votes.

In particular, the rush to say that immigration is the reason for crime is absolute horseshit that should be called out, as I have here.

If you're going to make a thread about violence committed by immigrants to call out "unchecked immigration", please be specific and provide evidence that a failure in immigration processes occurred. Anything else is just continued horseshit spin.

A crime committed by a migrant to the country is not evidence of a failure in immigration.

 

[Bray123]

So the guns are jumping up, all on their own, going out into the streets and killing people. Holy shit, it's a good thing mine are locked in a gun safe. Who knows the anarchy they could cause if I left them unsupervised,,,

Does that argument work with Fentanyl as well?

Holy shit, the drugs are jumping across the border all on their own and killing people! Every dose of Fentanyl is self inflicted so we don't need to worry about it!

 

[HisArpy]

Does that argument work with Fentanyl as well?

Holy shit, the drugs are jumping across the border all on their own and killing people! Every dose of Fentanyl is self inflicted so we don't need to worry about it!

Actually, it does work like that.

Because if Fentanyl isn't doing it all on it's own without human intervention, then guns aren't either.

 

[Bray123]

Actually, it does work like that.

Because if Fentanyl isn't doing it all on it's own without human intervention, then guns aren't either.

There's an extraordinary fuss about Fentanyl smuggling across the southern border in that case. But the fussers ignore the fact that those getting caught are Americans in cars driving back and fore, and not destitute people swimming across the river.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

There's an extraordinary fuss about Fentanyl smuggling across the southern border in that case. But the fussers ignore the fact that those getting caught are Americans in cars driving back and fore, and not destitute people swimming across the river.

Fentanyl is water soluble, but HisArpy keeps claiming water is carbon based, so maybe he thinks Fentanyl is not carbon based water, water soluble.

 

[HisArpy]

There's an extraordinary fuss about Fentanyl smuggling across the southern border in that case. But the fussers ignore the fact that those getting caught are Americans in cars driving back and fore, and not destitute people swimming across the river.

It's still not the drugs' fault.

Just as it's not the gun's fault.

That you insist on blaming the inanimate object for one, but absolving it for the other only shows that you have an unreasonable bias.

 

[ll74]

It's still not the drugs' fault.

Just as it's not the gun's fault.

That you insist on blaming the inanimate object for one, but absolving it for the other only shows that you have an unreasonable bias.

It's the choice of the person who has access to drugs and guns.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Does that argument work with Fentanyl as well?

Holy shit, the drugs are jumping across the border all on their own and killing people! Every dose of Fentanyl is self inflicted so we don't need to worry about it!

Are we talking about guns or not? Have you admitted that your inability to defend your position forces you to divert into another topic?

Look I will concede that in most cases if you are shot it takes action by another person to shoot you. If you decide to imbibe in fentanyl use it is most certainly you as an individual putting that in your body. Not someone forcible putting it in your body. The only corollary to guns would be suicide by gun, there the victim shot themselves, the same as taking drugs voluntarily.

 

[Bray123]

Are we talking about guns or not? Have you admitted that your inability to defend your position forces you to divert into another topic?

Look I will concede that in most cases if you are shot it takes action by another person to shoot you. If you decide to imbibe in fentanyl use it is most certainly you as an individual putting that in your body. Not someone forcible putting it in your body. The only corollary to guns would be suicide by gun, there the victim shot themselves, the same as taking drugs voluntarily.

We are. We are also talking about consistency on what is an inanimate object that is dangerous and an inanimate object which is apparently not.

Also, statistics on gun deaths that may include suicides (don't care, self-inflicted) and statistics on overdoses (do care, self-inflicted).

 

[Sean Renaud]

We are. We are also talking about consistency on what is an inanimate object that is dangerous and an inanimate object which is apparently not.

Also, statistics on gun deaths that may include suicides (don't care, self-inflicted) and statistics on overdoses (do care, self-inflicted).

We should care about suicides and ODs however those are important issues and ignoring them is not wise in the least.

As for people making this bullshit argument about its not the guns fault. We've covered this, this is no less stupid than claiming cargo ships don't ship goods. I'm pretty nobody is is swimming from China to the US. I'm pretty sure it impossible to drive from the Americas to Europe, Asia and Africa let alone Australia.

Nobody is arguing that guns are sentient. We're making the very solid case that while guns are just tools, the tools take a lot of lives in this country that wouldn't be. If you really want to make the argument about tyranny most of Europe has pretty strict gun laws and last I checked other than Russia. Its been a long time since any of those countries had dictators or facists. Socialists? Kinda sorta, but that's a separate conversation.

 

[Buffalogurl]

We should care about suicides and ODs however those are important issues and ignoring them is not wise in the least.

As for people making this bullshit argument about its not the guns fault. We've covered this, this is no less stupid than claiming cargo ships don't ship goods. I'm pretty nobody is is swimming from China to the US. I'm pretty sure it impossible to drive from the Americas to Europe, Asia and Africa let alone Australia.

Nobody is arguing that guns are sentient. We're making the very solid case that while guns are just tools, the tools take a lot of lives in this country that wouldn't be. If you really want to make the argument about tyranny most of Europe has pretty strict gun laws and last I checked other than Russia. Its been a long time since any of those countries had dictators or facists. Socialists? Kinda sorta, but that's a separate conversation.

Please, explain to me how an inanimate object as a gun kills or maims without human interaction?
Explain to me how ship moves cargo without human interaction
Explain to me how an automobile kills or maims without human interaction....
I've learned something very recent from wat_tyler's post.... Collective responsibility is a fascist concept...
I refuse to be punished for someone else's crime....
If I voted let's say for instance Former president Trump am I responsible for the "insurrection" using your fascist concept of Collective responsibility am I responsible? will you march me off to a re-education camp?
Because I own and operate a automobile. And automobiles kill or maim in excess of 30,000 people a year am I responsible for all of the dui deaths....or if my automobile is stolen from me and the perpetrators get into a high speed chase hit a school bus killing all aboard are going to hold me responsible?
Finally would you punish your daughter for a transgression your son committed?

 

[Sean Renaud]

Please, explain to me how an inanimate object as a gun kills or maims without human interaction?
Explain to me how ship moves cargo without human interaction
Explain to me how an automobile kills or maims without human interaction....
I've learned something very recent from wat_tyler's post.... Collective responsibility is a fascist concept...
I refuse to be punished for someone else's crime....
If I voted let's say for instance Former president Trump am I responsible for the "insurrection" using your fascist concept of Collective responsibility am I responsible? will you march me off to a re-education camp?
Because I own and operate a automobile. And automobiles kill or maim in excess of 30,000 people a year am I responsible for all of the dui deaths....or if my automobile is stolen from me and the perpetrators get into a high speed chase hit a school bus killing all aboard are going to hold me responsible?
Finally would you punish your daughter for a transgression your son committed?

Its been explained ad naseum in this threat, I'm not repeating the same for the 8th time.
Everything you listed proves my point, you remove the tool and the things the tools could be used for don't happen because the tools are gone.

I don't care if collective responsibility is fascist or not. We all get punished for the crimes of others if you want to call it that which is a stupid POB.

If you would vote him again you are at least tacit in his action if not in part responsible if you weren't damning his name for the last few years. We warned everybody about who he was and somehow it turns out he was worse than we presumed.

There really is no point in a re-education camp that's just stupid conservative talking points.

That's the thing, driving drunk until the 80s was treated as no big deal. Then an organization called MADD (maybe you've heard of them?) formed put immense political pressure on our leaders and now not only is drunk driving a big deal. If someone dies it counts as murder. On many holidays and sometimes just at random check points. I don't see conservatives or even libertarians fighting against that. Libertarians will occasionally talk about legalizing drugs but not a whole lot, certainly not the handful with any power.

As for how many people die due to cars that number is pretty irrelevant but thanks for bringing it up. The 35k number you quote includes any death. Doesn't matter your tire blows out and end up hitting a wall and dying or killing someone else.

It also helps that it is generally agreed that that a car's primary purpose is transportation not a weapon which is a big deal. You also can't keep weapons away from felons or even nukes from Iran if you honestly believe the bullshit you're spewing but you don't.

 

[Buffalogurl]

Its been explained ad naseum in this threat, I'm not repeating the same for the 8th time.
Everything you listed proves my point, you remove the tool and the things the tools could be used for don't happen because the tools are gone.

I don't care if collective responsibility is fascist or not. We all get punished for the crimes of others if you want to call it that which is a stupid POB.

If you would vote him again you are at least tacit in his action if not in part responsible if you weren't damning his name for the last few years. We warned everybody about who he was and somehow it turns out he was worse than we presumed.

There really is no point in a re-education camp that's just stupid conservative talking points.

That's the thing, driving drunk until the 80s was treated as no big deal. Then an organization called MADD (maybe you've heard of them?) formed put immense political pressure on our leaders and now not only is drunk driving a big deal. If someone dies it counts as murder. On many holidays and sometimes just at random check points. I don't see conservatives or even libertarians fighting against that. Libertarians will occasionally talk about legalizing drugs but not a whole lot, certainly not the handful with any power.

As for how many people die due to cars that number is pretty irrelevant but thanks for bringing it up. The 35k number you quote includes any death. Doesn't matter your tire blows out and end up hitting a wall and dying or killing someone else.

It also helps that it is generally agreed that that a car's primary purpose is transportation not a weapon which is a big deal. You also can't keep weapons away from felons or even nukes from Iran if you honestly believe the bullshit you're spewing but you don't.

You and your anti gun nazis have miss the point of my post. I'll make it plain, it takes a human to initiate the firing sequence. It takes a human to drive drunk and kill or main. There is a statement that reads .... none are so blind that refuse to see.... the bill of rights are basic human rights.... I am not responsible for the actions of others...... Hitler perceived that a handful of Jewish bankers were at the root of all of Germany's problems. In his twisted mind he blamed the entire Jewish population for the perceived "crimes" of a few..... 6 million Jewish people died as a result......
My people will never accept, never forget what happens to an unarmed people.... ever.......

Some time in the future you will find yourself in a dire situation, be it a home invasion, robbery, ect... Your family might be in peril, all you will have to defend yourself harsh language at best...
Remember this day and our conversation when that monster sticks a knife in your sternum, while his 3 associates rape your daughter and or wife........ the worst is still to come

 

[Buffalogurl]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...lice-chief-hit-and-run-las-vegas/70918016007/
These two useless meat sacks used 3 different stolen cars on a crime spree worthy of GTA severely injuring a 72 year old man and filming themselves deliberately running down a retired police chief killing him....no guns were involved.....
What the fuck is wrong with people..... oh, the perpetrators were over heard stating "we'll be out in no time cause we're juveniles" wrong they'll be tried as adults . Citizens ship of one of the perpetrators reasons not reported...

 

[Fuzzy1975]

You and your anti gun nazis have miss the point of my post. I'll make it plain, it takes a human to initiate the firing sequence.

You missed his point. If there wasn't a gun around, humans could't initiate the firing sequence and no none died from a gunshot.

It takes a human to drive drunk and kill or main.

It takes a country to initiate a war, what's your point?

There is a statement that reads .... none are so blind that refuse to see....

Yes and you think you're on the side that can see. Well if you can see, then you should be able to see "both" sides. I can, I am not anti gun. I am a gun owner, with quite a few in my safes. What I can see is a problem with firearms, their lack of education on use, the readily availability of them, and the carelessness of owners storing them. That is just a short list of the problems with them.

the bill of rights are basic human rights...

Basic Human rights? Hmmm really, you need a gun as a basic human right. I'd like to see your list in order of priority and see how far you go before a "gun" shows up. Here's mine....food, shelter, clothing, heat, water, healthcare, freedom of choice,....I wonder how far along I'd have to list before I added in a firearm...

I am not responsible for the actions of others

Yes you are. Inaction is just as much a problem as action is. But you just don't want to be responsible.

...... Hitler perceived that a handful of Jewish bankers were at the root of all of Germany's problems. In his twisted mind he blamed the entire Jewish population for the perceived "crimes" of a few..... 6 million Jewish people died as a result......
My people will never accept, never forget what happens to an unarmed people.... ever.......

Ahhhh bring Hitler into a discussion on guns.......awesome, 10 brownie points for you!!

Some time in the future you will find yourself in a dire situation, be it a home invasion, robbery, ect... Your family might be in peril, all you will have to defend yourself harsh language at best...

Society of fear.....the last resort of a person who fails to make a good argument for sane and sensible gun control regulations.....

Remember this day and our conversation when that monster sticks a knife in your sternum, while his 3 associates rape your daughter and or wife........ the worst is still to come

Maybe make a movie about the above. It sounds like something that could draw them in at the box office.

 

[Buffalogurl]

Good morning fuzzy, hope your morning is going well, I m going to make a few comments then I'm done...
Yes you've kinda cherry picked my post, that's fine. You stated that my inaction makes me guilty or responsible for the crimes of someone else? How is that to be?
What You listed as human basic human rights are in reality not, you have the right to pursue those items on your own devices you have no right to force me to provide you with them .
You listed freedom of choice, I choose not to be punished for the crimes of someone else.. you are very correct I refuse to be heald responsible for the actions of others. How would you like it if you were heald responsible for the crimes of your neighbor... ie jail....
As far Hitler never forget the past, or you will be doomed to repeat it
This is a slight deflection, but a question to you personally aside from or deferences. Your country's leader Justin Trudeau, and his followers a couple of days ago gave, what amounts to a standing ovation to a know prominent nazi in your leaders government building. what the fuck? I know he's a racist it's been proven he wore black face and now honoring a nazi.... you can't make this shit up..... are you folks going to stand by and allow this shit or am I missing something?... anyway fuzzy hope you enjoy this fine fall day....

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Good morning fuzzy, hope your morning is going well, I m going to make a few comments then I'm done...
Yes you've kinda cherry picked my post, that's fine. You stated that my inaction makes me guilty or responsible for the crimes of someone else? How is that to be?
What You listed as human basic human rights are in reality not, you have the right to pursue those items on your own devices you have no right to force me to provide you with them .
You listed freedom of choice, I choose not to be punished for the crimes of someone else.. you are very correct I refuse to be heald responsible for the actions of others. How would you like it if you were heald responsible for the crimes of your neighbor... ie jail....
As far Hitler never forget the past, or you will be doomed to repeat it
This is a slight deflection, but a question to you personally aside from or deferences. Your country's leader Justin Trudeau, and his followers a couple of days ago gave, what amounts to a standing ovation to a know prominent nazi in your leaders government building. what the fuck? I know he's a racist it's been proven he wore black face and now honoring a nazi.... you can't make this shit up..... are you folks going to stand by and allow this shit or am I missing something?... anyway fuzzy hope you enjoy this fine fall day....

The ovation was given to a 98-year-old Nazi, but he wasn’t “prominent”. He was an ethic Ukrainian living in Galicia who joined the SS to fight against the Russians when Stalin annexed his country.

The recent actions of the Canadian parliament were embarrassing, but were hardly an endorsement of fascism.

 

[AchtungNight]

Guns only make us safer as long as-

1. They remain in our hands.

2. We know how to use them effectively and are capable of it.

3. We maintain them properly and retain an adequate bullet supply.

4. Our enemies don’t have some way to counter them- deception, bigger guns, get close and disable, etc, etc , etc.

5. God is on our side.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Good morning fuzzy, hope your morning is going well, I m going to make a few comments then I'm done...
Yes you've kinda cherry picked my post, that's fine.

Of course I cherry picked through your post. On the points you brought up that make absolutely no sense except to people like you. Maybe you'll figure out the errors of your thinking!!

You stated that my inaction makes me guilty or responsible for the crimes of someone else? How is that to be?

You brought up drunk driving, so lets use that. If you see a person driving who you suspect is impaired, shouldn't you call the police to let them know? Failing to do so could result in that drunk drive hitting someone and taking their life. Right? If you don't take action, that drunk does hit someone, your inaction is partially responsible for that death. That is how things work in the "real" world.

The same applies to the gun violence in the US. You've heard the old saying, "if you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem"

What You listed as human basic human rights are in reality not, you have the right to pursue those items on your own devices you have no right to force me to provide you with them .

You're claiming the "bill of rights" are basic human rights. You fucking typed that. Not me. In that is the 2nd amendment, which gives the right of gun ownership. So you are stating guns are a basic human right. Your own quote, "the bill of rights are basic human rights..." I made a list of what I consider to be "basic human rights". Rights every human should have. Not a list of what I want you to fucking pay for!

But it's comical, you baulk at paying for the betterment of society!! Fucking useless piece of selfish shit is all you are!! Claiming guns are basic human rights, willing to let others dies, instead of admitting yes there is a problem, what can we do as a society to fix it.

You listed freedom of choice, I choose not to be punished for the crimes of someone else.. you are very correct I refuse to be heald responsible for the actions of others. How would you like it if you were heald responsible for the crimes of your neighbor... ie jail....

You're a chickenshit, no need to keep saying it. You're afraid of your own shadow....

As far Hitler never forget the past, or you will be doomed to repeat it

How does Hitler come into this? Are you that fucked in the head???? Oh wait I get it, you think if Germany had guns, the government never could have done what it did...But, Hitler never needed to militarily take over the populace. They embraced him and the lies he presented....so again how does Hitler come into this? Reality is he doesn't. It just shows how fucked up you are mentally that you need to bring Hitler into a discussion on gun control....

This is a slight deflection, but a question to you personally aside from or deferences. Your country's leader Justin Trudeau, and his followers a couple of days ago gave, what amounts to a standing ovation to a know prominent nazi in your leaders government building. what the fuck?

Yah I agree, talk about how fucking stupid people can be. I'd like them to shot hung and pissed on,and not necessarily in that order, but it has fuck all to do with your gun violence, and your lack of action on it. Just a nice try at deflection....

I know he's a racist it's been proven he wore black face and now honoring a nazi.... you can't make this shit up..... are you folks going to stand by and allow this shit or am I missing something?... anyway fuzzy hope you enjoy this fine fall day....

You act like I voted for him? Can you find any of my posts supporting him? Nah, but you think since I am a Canadian we all voted for him. Just shows more of your ignorance on a another topic.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

The ovation was given to a 98-year-old Nazi, but he wasn’t “prominent”. He was an ethic Ukrainian living in Galicia who joined the SS to fight against the Russians when Stalin annexed his country.

The recent actions of the Canadian parliament were embarrassing, but were hardly an endorsement of fascism.

Embarrassing beyond belief. Fuckers should have done a little homework....I suspect a few will resign. At least they, unlike their American Republicans, will be embarrassed enough by embarrassing their country to do the right thing!

 

[Sean Renaud]

You and your anti gun nazis have miss the point of my post. I'll make it plain, it takes a human to initiate the firing sequence. It takes a human to drive drunk and kill or main. There is a statement that reads .... none are so blind that refuse to see.... the bill of rights are basic human rights.... I am not responsible for the actions of others...... Hitler perceived that a handful of Jewish bankers were at the root of all of Germany's problems. In his twisted mind he blamed the entire Jewish population for the perceived "crimes" of a few..... 6 million Jewish people died as a result......
My people will never accept, never forget what happens to an unarmed people.... ever.......

Some time in the future you will find yourself in a dire situation, be it a home invasion, robbery, ect... Your family might be in peril, all you will have to defend yourself harsh language at best...
Remember this day and our conversation when that monster sticks a knife in your sternum, while his 3 associates rape your daughter and or wife........ the worst is still to come

I didn't miss the point, you're simply being far, far to simple. Nobody really beleives the Bill of Rights are basic human rights. You might not be responsible but you certain pay for the actions of all. I think Hitler just hated Jews but Jewish banker (a fault of Christians and Muslims) was a real bad look in the great Depression.

Nothing usually happens to unarmed people.

I'm never gonna have a family so that's not a realistic issue and if I die, I die. Shit happens and some happens to me. I'll happily trade that for the huge number of gun related deaths in this nation.

 

[HisArpy]

The ovation was given to a 98-year-old Nazi, but he wasn’t “prominent”. He was an ethic Ukrainian living in Galicia who joined the SS to fight against the Russians when Stalin annexed his country.

The recent actions of the Canadian parliament were embarrassing, but were hardly an endorsement of fascism.

When you laud someone who voluntarily participated in Hitler's war crimes, it's an endorsement. When you give someone who fought on the side of human genocide a standing ovation it's an endorsement.

And when you give that endorsement of the man, you also endorse his actions. You take those acts to your own breast as if they were your own.

Which makes you a nazi supporter, a bigot, an anti-semite, and a disgusting person.

Which has now earned you the coveted

GO FUCK YOURSELF

Congratulations, you are now on par with the little phuckwad.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

When you laud someone who voluntarily participated in Hitler's war crimes, it's an endorsement. When you give someone who fought on the side of human genocide a standing ovation it's an endorsement.

And when you give that endorsement of the man, you also endorse his actions. You take those acts to your own breast as if they were your own.

Which makes you a nazi supporter, a bigot, an anti-semite, and a disgusting person.

Which has now earned you the coveted

GO FUCK YOURSELF

Congratulations, you are now on par with the little phuckwad.

When you endorse Donald Trump you’re endorsing fascism.

 

[HisArpy]

When you endorse Donald Trump you’re endorsing fascism.

Donald Trump didn't participate in the attempted exterminated of all the Jews in Germany. Donald Trump didn't kill anyone.


The fact that you had to try and deflect to "BUT TRUMP!!!" to avoid facing the truth that you support REAL LIFE NAZI's only proves what a sad little mental midget you are.

The nickname of ninnygirl is right, you're an imbecile.