Do guns make us more safe?

[Buffalogurl]

The point of the story (before you twisted it around) is that the unarmed woman was put in danger by an armed man. However he turned out to be a total ammosexual and dropped his firearm on the floor. The woman didn't need a gun to defend herself and saw him off with a Karen level glare.

I tried to put that humorously but you went all twonk on us.

Bray123, I misunderstood your humor in you post.
So, I do apologize for my response.

 

[adrina]

https://law.stanford.edu/2015/10/12...do-not-support-claim-that-guns-make-us-safer/

Professor John Donohue: Facts Do Not Support Claim That Guns Make Us Safer​

Guns are a bit like chest x-rays. If you really need them, they can be helpful to have around, and even save lives. If you don’t need them, and yet are constantly exposed to them, they represent a constant threat while conferring little or no benefit.

 

[adrina]

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

We found that states with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm homicide and overall homicide.

1. Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review)


Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the U.S., where there are more guns, both men and women are at a higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

2. Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide


We analyzed the relationship between homicide and gun availability using data from 26 developed countries from the early 1990s. We found that across developed countries, where guns are more available, there are more homicides. These results often hold even when the United States is excluded.

3. Across states, more guns = more homicide


Using a validated proxy for firearm ownership, we analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and homicide across 50 states over a ten-year period (1988-1997).


After controlling for poverty and urbanization, for every age group, people in states with many guns have elevated rates of homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

4. Across states, more guns = more homicide (2)


Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and homicide across states, 2001-2003. We found that states with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm homicide and overall homicide. This relationship held for both genders and all age groups, after accounting for rates of aggravated assault, robbery, unemployment, urbanization, alcohol consumption, and resource deprivation (e.g., poverty). There was no association between gun prevalence and non-firearm homicide.

6. More guns = more homicides of police


This article examines homicide rates of Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs) from 1996 to 2010. Differences in rates of homicides of LEOs across states are best explained not by differences in crime, but by differences in household gun ownership. In high gun states, LEOs are 3 times more likely to be murdered than LEOs working in low-gun states.


This article was cited by President Obama in a speech to a police association. This article will hopefully bring police further into the camp of those pushing for sensible gun laws.

 

[HisArpy]

Meanwhile in Israel today...

 

[Sean Renaud]

Honestly I have zero pity for Israel.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Meanwhile in Israel today...

Israelis are actually well armed in their homes. Every Israeli soldier takes their weapon home. Around 3% of the population have a permit to have a weapon, and up to 50 rounds of ammunition at home.

Now if you're trying to imply Hamas wouldn't have attacked today, if there were more citizens who are armed at home. That idea fails to take into account, Hamas is a radical terrorist group. Zealots rarely care about what they face, only about their cause. But then again, you spent 3 days and around 7 pages of a thread arguing that water is Carbon based...

 

[Sean Renaud]

The bigger issue is that what happened in Israel is not the excuse that conservatives use to justify keeping guns in the hands of citizens. They are afraid that one day someone like Biden will come along and treat us like former generations did with vaccines. We or that they'll do some other crazy crap like social distancing.

 

[Dribble]

Honestly I have zero pity for Israel.

You and I finally agree.

 

[Sean Renaud]

You and I finally agree.

Congrats on being right for a change. Besides you are generally similar to Rob where if I agree with what you said the most I'm gonna do is give you a like and move on. You're generally well informed even I often disagree with your end game.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Honestly I have zero pity for Israel.

So let's be clear here. You have absolutely no problem with terrorists killing hundreds and wounding over 1500 Israelis, but you bemoan the death of even one person shot to death in the US? Basically WTF is wrong with you?

 

[Dribble]

So let's be clear here. You have absolutely no problem with terrorists killing hundreds and wounding over 1500 Israelis, but you bemoan the death of even one person shot to death in the US? Basically WTF is wrong with you?

Let's be clear...maybe Israel shouldn't treat their neighbors like shit? Blockading since 2007. Entering into temples they signed agreements not to enter. Taking more and more land. I am not supporting Hamas...or Iran...but I am also not sucking Israel 's dick. They are just as much to blame as Hamas. What the fuck is wrong with you?

 

[TrailerHitch]

Let's be clear...maybe Israel shouldn't treat their neighbors like shit? Blockading since 2007. Entering into temples they signed agreements not to enter. Taking more and more land. I am not supporting Hamas...or Iran...but I am also not sucking Israel 's dick. They are just as much to blame as Hamas. What the fuck is wrong with you?

WTF is wrong with me is try to kill soldiers if you have to try to kill someone, not civilians, including children and the elderly.

Let's be clear if you are in anyway condoning this you ARE supporting Hamas.

 

[Dribble]

WTF is wrong with me is try to kill soldiers if you have to try to kill someone, not civilians, including children and the elderly.

Let's be clear if you are in anyway condoning this you ARE supporting Hamas.

No...I say I understand it. Why don't you?

 

[Dribble]

The day Israel stops killing civilians...then we can talk. Takes two to fight

 

[Dribble]

For the trailer boy

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-rele...VA (8 June 2023) –,report to the Human Rights

 

[Sean Renaud]

So let's be clear here. You have absolutely no problem with terrorists killing hundreds and wounding over 1500 Israelis, but you bemoan the death of even one person shot to death in the US? Basically WTF is wrong with you?

Somewhere out there is a young man or a boy whose first real memory is watching his brother and his soon to be wife getting taken out by a drone. Considering we've sanctioned the Afghans there are kids right now who are starving and they are not blaming the Taliban whom our official policy is not to deal with. Which is just policy all around. I could country by country in the Middle East, South America and the Carribean that if one day in the next few years we get hit its not like we didn't earn that shit. Especially our politicians Ironically in this just across the board. Like normally I would point out both parties are not the same. But when it came to authorizing two wars they knew what they were doing.

In terms of the numbers killed the Israelis have killed more Palestinians in one go than the Palestinians have killed period. Part of the problem is that Americans collectively give Israel a complete pass on everything. I suspect at least on the Conservative side too many Christians are waiting for that Temple to get built so we can kick off Revelations. People wonder why I'm so against religion collectively, Christianity specifically.

This is not saying that Hamas or Hezzbolah are good people they are not but part of the reason they have pretty heavy support from the population is that its really hard to sympathize with a nation that is making your life pretty unlivable. We might make some progress if Israel was negotiating in good faith and like it or not Hamas is the "official" government in that land

 

[TrailerHitch]

No...I say I understand it. Why don't you?

Because whether it was my government massacring Native Americans and wiping out entire settlements, or the Nazis killing Jews and the other so called undesirables, or anyone killing civilians, it makes no sense and is just murder. In war soldiers expect that they might die, killing civilians is terrorism flat out, no matter how you attempt to justify it. All it does, especially in the case of the Israelis, is strengthen their resolve to not back down.

 

[TomTeacher19]

Let's be clear if you are in anyway condoning this you ARE supporting Hamas.

Sounds a lot like "if you are supporting pro gun politicians and pro gun policies and pro gun organizations then you ARE supporting all the gun violence and gun deaths resulting from those and you ARE guilty and responsible for those" (actually it sounds like far more of a stretch than that, but definitely using similar concepts)

 

[TrailerHitch]

Sounds a lot like "if you are supporting pro gun politicians and pro gun policies and pro gun organizations then you ARE supporting all the gun violence and gun deaths resulting from those and you ARE guilty and responsible for those" (actually it sounds like far more of a stretch than that, but definitely using similar concepts)

Nice reach...But sorry no points awarded for your idiocy.

 

[TomTeacher19]

Nice reach...But sorry no points awarded for your idiocy.

Ha ha. I like the humor at the idea that you somehow could be giving out points when the consistent theme of every post you've ever made is how completely pointless anything you say is.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Not back down? Israel's kill count is so high I'm surprised they haven't unlocked the space laser perk and finished off the Palestenians.

While wrong is always wrong but lets be honest, we didn't collectively think of the natives as actual people. Of course Europeans had no idea how fucking lucky they were compared to most of the world but still. There is no defense for the Holocaust though you can at least in part blame both Christianity and Islam. Turns out when your religion doesn't allow you to comite usary you can't run a bank. When the people deciding who gets loans wealth will start focusing and the more money you have the less a recession or depression hurts you so it was super easy to pin the blame on them.

I haven't seen anybody saying killing civilians is okay but our track record is trash and so Israels so its rich coming from us that this is bullshit.

The progun argument isn't even a reach. The politicians at least in theory work for us and the result of policies you very clealry support with your votes and donations if you make them is impossible to separate from the results. Conservatives just hate responsibility.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Ha ha. I like the humor at the idea that you somehow could be giving out points when the consistent theme of every post you've ever made is how completely pointless anything you say is.

Yawn...As if what you say means anything at all.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Not back down? Israel's kill count is so high I'm surprised they haven't unlocked the space laser perk and finished off the Palestenians.

While wrong is always wrong but lets be honest, we didn't collectively think of the natives as actual people. Of course Europeans had no idea how fucking lucky they were compared to most of the world but still. There is no defense for the Holocaust though you can at least in part blame both Christianity and Islam. Turns out when your religion doesn't allow you to comite usary you can't run a bank. When the people deciding who gets loans wealth will start focusing and the more money you have the less a recession or depression hurts you so it was super easy to pin the blame on them.

I haven't seen anybody saying killing civilians is okay but our track record is trash and so Israels so its rich coming from us that this is bullshit.

The progun argument isn't even a reach. The politicians at least in theory work for us and the result of policies you very clealry support with your votes and donations if you make them is impossible to separate from the results. Conservatives just hate responsibility.

Either you agree killing civilians is wrong, even when it's your side doing it, or you don't. there is no justification.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Either you agree killing civilians is wrong, even when it's your side doing it, or you don't. there is no justification.

What real alternatives do they have?

 

[TrailerHitch]

What real alternatives do they have?

Okay so now you admitted it, the ends justify the means so you condone mass murder of civilians. Congratulations you are officially a piece of shit.