Do guns make us more safe?

[Sean Renaud]

Okay so now you admitted it, the ends justify the means so you condone mass murder of civilians. Congratulations you are officially a piece of shit.

So you don't actually have answer for what alternatives they have. The ends often do justify the means however. I never see you chastise Israel for grossly disproportionate responses.

 

[Dribble]

Okay so now you admitted it, the ends justify the means so you condone mass murder of civilians. Congratulations you are officially a piece of shit.

But it is OK for Israel to do it? Of course you support terrorism. And Putin. And Trump

Did you read the UN report from June this year?

 

[Dribble]

Violence of this type is never acceptable. It never yields positive results. But it is understandable when a group of people are essentially enslaved and the World turns a blind eye.

 

[Chobham]

Sounds a lot like "if you are supporting pro gun politicians and pro gun policies and pro gun organizations then you ARE supporting all the gun violence and gun deaths resulting from those and you ARE guilty and responsible for those" (actually it sounds like far more of a stretch than that, but definitely using similar concepts)

Really? Ever bothered to turn off the TV and research the statistics as to who is murdering who? And do you really think that disarming the law abiding will somehow have an effect on those that don't follow the law?

The "Culture War" is coming to a head. Either we find a just, and lawful, solution or Civil War will follow.

 

[adrina]

Either you agree killing civilians is wrong, even when it's your side doing it, or you don't. there is no justification.

So then Israel killing Palestinian civilians is wrong.

 

[TomTeacher19]

Really? Ever bothered to turn off the TV and research the statistics as to who is murdering who? And do you really think that disarming the law abiding will somehow have an effect on those that don't follow the law?

The "Culture War" is coming to a head. Either we find a just, and lawful, solution or Civil War will follow.

Yup. People with guns are murdering others. People with guns are getting murdered. They aren't any safer and their guns are used in more murders.

There are no law abiding gun owners. There just gun owners who do the murders and gun owners who are supporting the murders. And the more we take the guns from anyone, the less gun violence and gun deaths we will have. And it doesn't matter if you follow the law or not - because you do when you are caught and punished either way.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Violence of this type is never acceptable. It never yields positive results. But it is understandable when a group of people are essentially enslaved and the World turns a blind eye.

The Founding Fathers would strongly disagree as would the French Resistance in WW2 and I'm sure if started reading up on every revolution in just the last two hundred years so their are probably countless examples of it working just fine.

The bigger issue here though is clearly talking like civilized adults off the table at least until Netanyahoo is off the board and we get an American president that are truly serious about not just solving the problem but not blindly taking Israel's side no matter what they do. Which I don't see happening in the near future for reasons I've already listed about the American Christians are waiting to kick or Revelations. That's what happens when you are indoctrinated from birth in a death cult.

We could have a conversation about how bad things should have to be before "By any means necessary" is the only correct answer. Well unless you believe in heaven then you may as well lay down and die.

 

[Chobham]

Yup. People with guns are murdering others. People with guns are getting murdered. They aren't any safer and their guns are used in more murders.

There are no law abiding gun owners. There just gun owners who do the murders and gun owners who are supporting the murders. And the more we take the guns from anyone, the less gun violence and gun deaths we will have. And it doesn't matter if you follow the law or not - because you do when you are caught and punished either way.

People with guns are killing those that would murder others as well, but those stories rarely make it to the 5 o'clock broadcast.

You AREN'T going to get rid of guns, so what's you're Plan B?

 

[Sean Renaud]

People with guns are killing those that would murder others as well, but those stories rarely make it to the 5 o'clock broadcast.

You AREN'T going to get rid of guns, so what's you're Plan B?

Because there are very few cases where that is a proven fact.

Honestly largely getting rid of guns wouldn't be as difficult as people make it sound.

 

[TomTeacher19]

People with guns are killing those that would murder others as well, but those stories rarely make it to the 5 o'clock broadcast.

You AREN'T going to get rid of guns, so what's you're Plan B?

They make it on the news more than enough. Way more often than the all the other murders they supported to get there.
We don't need plan B. We need plan A. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not the best plan. And we haven't actually tried plan A so you don't know it can't or won't work.

 

[TrailerHitch]

So then Israel killing Palestinian civilians is wrong.

Did I say differently?

 

[TrailerHitch]

So you don't actually have answer for what alternatives they have. The ends often do justify the means however. I never see you chastise Israel for grossly disproportionate responses.

I don't recall there being a topic asking anyone to chastise Israel.

 

[TrailerHitch]

But it is OK for Israel to do it? Of course you support terrorism. And Putin. And Trump

Did you read the UN report from June this year?

Yawn...Don't you ever get tired of people a lunatic propagandist. Geezus I say killing civilians is wrong no matter whose doing it and you drive down this fucking idiotic road.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Violence of this type is never acceptable. It never yields positive results. But it is understandable when a group of people are essentially enslaved and the World turns a blind eye.

You are trying not to say you condone it while saying you condone it. Grow a pair and just fucking say it you coward.

 

[Chobham]

They make it on the news more than enough. Way more often than the all the other murders they supported to get there.
We don't need plan B. We need plan A. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not the best plan. And we haven't actually tried plan A so you don't know it can't or won't work.

Well, if you're sticking to Plan A................you lose.

 

[TrailerHitch]

So then Israel killing Palestinian civilians is wrong.

Here's what I said. My point seems pretty clear.

"Because whether it was my government massacring Native Americans and wiping out entire settlements, or the Nazis killing Jews and the other so called undesirables, or anyone killing civilians, it makes no sense and is just murder. In war soldiers expect that they might die, killing civilians is terrorism flat out, no matter how you attempt to justify it. All it does, especially in the case of the Israelis, is strengthen their resolve to not back down."

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'll say it. As terrible as it is sometimes its the only viable plan.

 

[TomTeacher19]

Well, if you're sticking to Plan A................you lose.

And more and more people are victims of gun violence every day. And more and more people die from guns every day. And you are complicit. I'm fine with "losing" for wanting plan A. The alternative is disgusting and evil.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Yup. People with guns are murdering others. People with guns are getting murdered. They aren't any safer and their guns are used in more murders.

There are no law abiding gun owners. There just gun owners who do the murders and gun owners who are supporting the murders. And the more we take the guns from anyone, the less gun violence and gun deaths we will have. And it doesn't matter if you follow the law or not - because you do when you are caught and punished either way.

I seriously hope you are not really a teacher because your ability to use reason and logic are completely gone.

Your logic here is the same as saying anyone that drinks, even if they don't drive drunk, is responsible for all drunk driving deaths so they are of course guilty themselves.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Here's what I said. My point seems pretty clear.

"Because whether it was my government massacring Native Americans and wiping out entire settlements, or the Nazis killing Jews and the other so called undesirables, or anyone killing civilians, it makes no sense and is just murder. In war soldiers expect that they might die, killing civilians is terrorism flat out, no matter how you attempt to justify it. All it does, especially in the case of the Israelis, is strengthen their resolve to not back down."

Things you didn't even really list similar actions but when straight to genocides and attempted suicides. How is this fundamentally different from the Allies to did to Dresden or Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We knew exactly what we were doing and while I think we could have just blockaded Japan I'm in a mirority on that opinion.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Honestly largely getting rid of guns wouldn't be as difficult as people make it sound.

Oh yes it will be. There are hundreds of thousands of gun that there are no record of. So even if they take all of the ones they know about they haven't disarmed everyone. Just like with alcohol during prohibition the black market for guns will boom and more unregistered unknown guns will appear. Millions of law abiding citizens will be made criminals by violating the 2nd Amendment.

 

[TomTeacher19]

I seriously hope you are not really a teacher because your ability to use reason and logic are completely gone.

Your logic here is the same as saying anyone that drinks, even if they don't drive drunk, is responsible for all drunk driving deaths so they are of course guilty themselves.

This has actually been pointed out and explained to you many, many times but between your complete inability to have any reading comprehension skills and your astonishing lack of understanding of logic, you have proven you don't get this. But no, they are not the same and there is zero logic that puts them in the same track. Guns only do one thing - cause violence and death. Cars are not the same. Alcohol is not the same. Combining multiple things is not the same. Pro-car people aren't pushing agendas to enable more drunk driving. Pro-alcohol people aren't pushing agendas to enable more drunk driving. Sigh.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Things you didn't even really list similar actions but when straight to genocides and attempted suicides. How is this fundamentally different from the Allies to did to Dresden or Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We knew exactly what we were doing and while I think we could have just blockaded Japan I'm in a mirority on that opinion.

Sing and dance and just keep expanding the topic while you openly condone Hamas murdering civilians. You are a hypocrite and a pathetic joke.

 

[Sean Renaud]

LEts start that nobody has the first clue how many guns are or aren't in the nation. We have wild guesses that we put together but its all insane guess work and should be taken with a grain of salt.

Second I believe enough Americans are law abiding that gun buy backs combined with strict laws against any crime involve a gun the problem isn't nearly as big as the Right likes to pretending it is. Prohibition and the drug war are entirely different from weapons. There IS no comparison that makes any real sense. I'm sure you have tons of links to weapons like Uzis or grenades being used by the criminals? No? Because it actually works that is also why you are in much more danger in states with lax gun laws and since we don't have borders on our states its not like many cases we couldn't drive to the next state or a have a friend in other states. Is it legal? Nope but we know it happens to varying degrees.

 

[Chobham]

And more and more people are victims of gun violence every day. And more and more people die from guns every day. And you are complicit. I'm fine with "losing" for wanting plan A. The alternative is disgusting and evil.

I don't give a flying fuck. If you want to be lenient with criminals, if you want to let more criminals into the nation? Don't blame the law abiding for fucked up liberal policies.