Has the "Bear vs. Man" conundrum made you reconsider your writings?

[SimonDoom]

It's amazing how silly these threads can get, and how much rancor people can feel when they get silly. I suppose I contribute to the silliness, but I always believe it's possible to explore the silly edges of a thread while acknowledging that there's a serious issue at the core.

Many things can be true.

1. Bears can be dangerous. I think we can all agree that bears are, at least potentially, dangerous animals.
2. But I'd worry more about a man with a gun than I would a bear.
3. Women are perfectly justified in being concerned about the danger posed by men they don't know in many, many situations. I don't personally think one is at particular risk from men in the woods, but that's not the point of the thread. Women have to deal with the real-world risk posed by strange men much more than they have to worry about strange bears.
4. Most of the people making comments about the dangers of bears are not denying that fears about men are justified.

 

[lustychimera]

 

[MrPixel]

...sigh...

The misandry is strong, it is.

Iggy.

 

[cadeauxxx]

"Goalpost shifting" is pretty rich coming from the dude who's been trying to make this all about the very specific risk of being eaten alive as opposed to any of the other awful things that men, and not bears, have been known to do.

I don't see this going anywhere constructive, so welcome to my ignore list. Have a nice life.

That's an honor coming from you.

 

[cadeauxxx]

Men are so emotional when they don’t get picked.


That’s why we opt for the bear. Bears are gonna Bear. Men are less predictable.

Enjoy the bear then!

 

[nice90sguy]

The purpose of this thread was to alert people to the extent that women are put in a state of fear by men. To me it's obvious that
1) anyone who's had any kind of relationship with a woman knows that already (most women I've been with have related stories of being molested and in real danger when out alone), and more importantly,

2) The bear/man "conundrum" a really dumb comparison, inviting ridicule of a serious subject, and actually inviding more ridcule of women -- it's actaully pretty mysogynisitic.

 

[Erozetta]

Oddly, I've encountered both bears and men, but only have scars from the men.

 

[NoTalentHack]

ROFL, that just proves my point of how absurd and stupid this question is.

Here's a better question if you want to talk about relationship issues and men treating women badly - Man or Dog?

There's plenty of single women (and single men too) who live with a dog, or even a cat. Anyone who has had a pet, knows that we tend to treat them as our own family and it is the most heartbreaking thing to endure when they leave us. It's a real shame that a dog can't live more than 15 years (I was lucky with mine who passed last year at 16 years).

By basing it around a pet or a man, you can actually talk about relationship issues and misogyny, without being laughed out the room over the ridiculousness of choosing a wild animal that can kill you and eat you alive, over a man.

So there's the mic drop. Dog or man?




I already made this post.





Instead of choosing a bear, how about man or dog?

It’s… not about relationship issues. Like, at all.

 

[KatieDoes]

Enjoy the bear then!

I hike alone frequently. I’ve seen both bears and men while I’m alone in the woods. This isn’t some fanciful theoretic exercise. I have never felt as unsafe due to a bear as I have due to men.

I shall enjoy the bear, thanks.

 

[cadeauxxx]

The purpose of this thread was to alert people to the extent that women are put in a state of fear by men. To me it's obvious that
1) anyone who's had any kind of relationship with a woman knows that already (most women I've been with have related stories of being molested and in real danger when out alone), and more importantly,

2) The bear/man "conundrum" a really dumb comparison, inviting ridicule of a serious subject, and actually inviding more ridcule of women -- it's actaully pretty mysogynisitic.

That's my entire point of why I suggested Man or Dog as the better question.

The idea of choosing a bear over a man is so laughable, and it feels like some sick joke that someone came up with as a way of making fun of women. No woman or anyone sane is going to want to live with a bear like they do a normal pet. But when you ask the question in regards to a pet or a man, it opens up the discussion much better. Many people will choose to live with a dog or cat opposed to a partner.

I'm not brushing off women's issues or downplaying them. I know that we men take things for granted that we can't relate to when it comes to women's fears around other men. My fiancé told me a story years ago that stuck with me, about how she is afraid of walking to her car at night when leaving work.

What I am brushing off though is the comparison to a bear. Like I have said many times now, the whole thing would be much better if the question was Man or Dog or any other pet. I don't care if people get pissed off by mentioning the fact that bears can brutalize you, that's just a fact of the matter, and proves my point that it's a better discussion if it was around a real pet.

 

[Erozetta]

That's my entire point of why I suggested Man or Dog as the better question.

The idea of choosing a bear over a man is so laughable, and it feels like some sick joke that someone came up with as a way of making fun of women. No woman or anyone sane is going to want to live with a bear like they do a normal pet. But when you ask the question in regards to a pet or a man, it opens up the discussion much better. Many people will choose to live with a dog or cat opposed to a partner.

I'm not brushing off women's issues or downplaying them. I know that we men take things for granted that we can't relate to when it comes to women's fears around other men. My fiancé told me a story years ago that stuck with me, about how she is afraid of walking to her car at night when leaving work.

What I am brushing off though is the comparison to a bear. Like I have said many times now, the whole thing would be much better if the question was Man or Dog or any other pet. I don't care if people get pissed off by mentioning the fact that bears can brutalize you, that's just a fact of the matter, and proves my point that it's a better discussion if it was around a real pet.

No one said anything about living with them.

And you keep mentioning being brutalized by a bear, as if men can't and haven't done worse?

 

[KeithD]

Men are so emotional when they don’t get picked.

Yes, I laughed.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

The original question was posed in America, where the most prevalent bear is the American Black Bear. They are generally timid, non aggressive, and avoid humans for the most part. They rarely attack, and if they do it is almost always because they were approached and threatened (or felt threatened).

In the case of this bear, I absolutely, 100% choose the bear every fucking time.

Brown Bears (Grizzly) are more aggressive, and make for a more difficult decision. I think in that case, I’d hope to come across a man who runs slower than me.

Polar Bears are the only ones who view humans as a food source, but I’m not likely to happen across one while hiking in the woods, because woods are not ice.

That was my general impression, thank you for confirming. I believe European bears are pretty similar to the black bears you describe, too.

I interpret the question among the lines of "seeing as any individual man or bear might be batshit and aggressive enough to maim or kill you, but you don't know which ones are, which would you prefer to take your chances with?"

Maybe 1 in 1000 black bears might kill you, but the rest would simply leave you alone.

Given a man who has appeared near a lone woman on a deserted trail, I'm not going to guess at the chances of them attempting rape or murder, but the chances of the guy wanting to tag along, tell me I'm going the trip wrong, or just talking at me, is pretty damn high. Probably one in five, from experience. Even if they don't try to chat me up.

So in a definite non-grizzly wooded area, that quiet bear is looking quite tempting...

 

[AchtungNight]

As @KatieDoes says every woman has been harassed at some point in their lives and the reason they don't go to such lengths to point out the frustration of such things is that when they do some man will rock up saying "That's terrible, but not all men are like that" as though they might not have considered that it or that it makes any difference to what's happened to them.

It's like telling someone you were bitten by a black widow and they respond with "Well, not all spiders are dangerous" rather than reaching for an antivenom. It may well be true but it has fuck all to do with anything that has just happened or what they have suffered.

If you say so. I don’t think a few women still in infancy have had the experience yet. And I like to hold out the hope that there are still good men out there too.

It might be better to ask you this. Do you enjoy being a bully? I ask the same thing of every other person on this thread who has said harsh words to me. Do you enjoy bullying? Why or why not? What exactly makes you think it is justified?

My answers- no, I don’t enjoy it. I’ve been on the receiving end and I still have empathy. I don’t enjoy being a bully or being accused of it. The only reason I’ve used the tactic is in response to personal attacks. I am willing to cease the attacks and ask for peace. I wish you were also.

 

[cadeauxxx]

No one said anything about living with them.

And you keep mentioning being brutalized by a bear, as if men can't and haven't done worse?

I never said anywhere that men can't brutalize and do horrible things. However, before I started posting in here, it was the big elephant in the room that no one wanted to mention how bears can harm, while talking about how men do things. All I've done is make mention, and I'll link examples of the gruesome ways a bear can mess someone up.

Again - if you want a real argument that actually makes sense, Man or Dog, or Man or Cat, or Man or Pet will get you a better discussion. This seems to get ignored, so people can keep going along with this insane argument.

 

[SimonDoom]

That's my entire point of why I suggested Man or Dog as the better question.

The idea of choosing a bear over a man is so laughable, and it feels like some sick joke that someone came up with as a way of making fun of women. No woman or anyone sane is going to want to live with a bear like they do a normal pet. But when you ask the question in regards to a pet or a man, it opens up the discussion much better. Many people will choose to live with a dog or cat opposed to a partner.

I'm not brushing off women's issues or downplaying them. I know that we men take things for granted that we can't relate to when it comes to women's fears around other men. My fiancé told me a story years ago that stuck with me, about how she is afraid of walking to her car at night when leaving work.

What I am brushing off though is the comparison to a bear. Like I have said many times now, the whole thing would be much better if the question was Man or Dog or any other pet. I don't care if people get pissed off by mentioning the fact that bears can brutalize you, that's just a fact of the matter, and proves my point that it's a better discussion if it was around a real pet.

Yes, it's, on its face, a silly comparison, but I think that's the point. If women are more afraid of a strange man than a strange bear, then it shows that fear of men is an alarmingly pervasive attitude--regardless of what one thinks of bears. Based on history, and what I know of crime, and things I've heard from women I know, it's justified.

Getting into the nitty gritty of bear v. man, or the objective risks posed by bears, can be interesting or amusing--it amuses me, as one can see from my own posts--but it's a diversion from the main point of the thread.

 

[nice90sguy]

The only possible serious point this thread can make is the obvious one: There's a real assymetry between the danger women feel from men, vs the opposite.

Personally I think that's getting better -- slowly, over centuries rather than years.

 

[Erozetta]

I never said anywhere that men can't brutalize and do horrible things. However, before I started posting in here, it was the big elephant in the room that no one wanted to mention how bears can harm, while talking about how men do things. All I've done is make mention, and I'll link examples of the gruesome ways a bear can mess someone up.

Again - if you want a real argument that actually makes sense, Man or Dog, or Man or Cat, or Man or Pet will get you a better discussion. This seems to get ignored, so people can keep going along with this insane argument.

The whole discussion is about having men step back and say, "Hold up, why are so many women choosing the animal that can kill them over us? What makes us scarier than a fucking bear?"

It was never the elephant in the room, it was the fucking point, dude.

 

[Bamagan]

I’m really disappointed in this survey because it’s missing two obvious options:

• hundred duck-sized horses
• one horse-sized duck

They could’ve solved an age-old debate, and they didn’t!

You'll want the horse-sized duck. Scaled up to that degree, it would be unable to walk under its own power, much less fight.

 

[nice90sguy]

Hold up, why are so many women choosing the animal that can kill them over us

For a ton of reasons. Which is why the question is worse than stupid. It's sort of a trap that allows everyone to miss the point.

 

[cadeauxxx]

The whole discussion is about having men step back and say, "Hold up, why are so many women choosing the animal that can kill them over us? What makes us scarier than a fucking bear?"

It was never the elephant in the room, it was the fucking point, dude.

LOL that is not the reaction I had to it. I found it hilarious, and then on this forum have been laughing for well over an hour at these absurd arguments people are making.

Using your logic, and my counter-question that has ben ignored repeatedly, if men are saying "why are women choosing a dog or a cat over us?", that would lead to much better discussion and getting into issues, rather than saying you would rather encounter a bear.

My point being that there are many single women who will choose to live with a dog or cat than a man. This makes way more sense than defending the idea of a bear.

 

[AchtungNight]

Except the 'man who is worse than a bear' is always going to exist. Regardless of any attempts I make and may have already have made to enact social change, a lone woman should always have a degree of caution around a lone man. It's not a game that's ever going to be won. No one is ever going to put out a 'mission accomplished' banner. Things can get better and, at a macro-level, over the past hundred years, have been getting better.

And I say this as someone who has experienced someone I cared deeply about being a victim of sexual assault and having been able to do no more than listen to her. And also as someone who has stepped in to stop a physical assault of a woman by a man.

I too have had people I care about deeply become victims of abuse like you describe and I too have counseled and assisted them. I have been the victim of assault and harassment too. It doesn’t just happen to women.

However I have seen many women feel justified in putting down every single man because of a few bad men’s actions. And acting like every man who dares to disagree with them must therefore be a rapist or a rapist wannabe. My question to you is- when can you stop this? Why can’t you just give a stranger you don’t know and will probably never meet the benefit of the doubt?

This is not about me getting dates. As I said, I will probably never meet you outside this chat room. And as I have said also, I may not be interested in dating you in any case. A negative attitude is my number one turn off, after all. So why bully me? Why immediately put me in the bad guy roster? Because I hang out on an adult website? So do you. Because I chose to admire a few bits of media without considering the context? Haven’t you ever made a mistake?

You probably have been bullied in some way too. You tell me it’s a common experience among women. Well, did you enjoy it? Not every victim of bullying becomes a bully. Nor should they. We need to stop the vicious cycle, yes, and it starts with every one of us. Men and women too.

I’m glad you think things are getting better. Wish I could feel like I agree. It’s not as easy for me to put a finger on the pulse of the situation.

 

[StillStunned]

To point out the inherent conflict in the question, how about this: as a woman walking in an urban environment at night, would you rather encounter a man you know or one you don't?

 

[Otis_Ravelli]

If you say so. I don’t think a few women still in infancy have had the experience yet. And I like to hold out the hope that there are still good men out there too.

It might be better to ask you this. Do you enjoy being a bully? I ask the same thing of every other person on this thread who has said harsh words to me. Do you enjoy bullying? Why or why not? What exactly makes you think it is justified?

My answers- no, I don’t enjoy it. I’ve been on the receiving end and I still have empathy. I don’t enjoy being a bully or being accused of it. The only reason I’ve used the tactic is in response to personal attacks. I am willing to cease the attacks and ask for peace. I wish you were also.

Calling out someone's terrible take on something isn't bullying. You waded in telling women here how nice you are and they should give nice guys like you a chance and when a multitude of people point out the fallacy of that argument you decide that the best way to escape with your nice guy card intact is to make out you're being unfairly bullied by the mean people telling you why you're wrong.

You are in no way the victim here.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Residents of Mantue Springs would disagree with you about not meeting a bear in their community. Sometimes, they even wander into Colorado Springs. In fact, almost any community next to or in the foothills, and those in the Mountains, can expect regular visits from all sorts of noncity critters. But you're right; predators of the human variety outnumber those in the wild every day of the week.

That's not comparing apples to apples though. In a wooded area of a city there is a zero chance to meet a bear. And in the real woods there is basically the equal chance to meet a sexual or any other type of human predator.