Has the "Bear vs. Man" conundrum made you reconsider your writings?

[Zootonius]

I'll just add this sobering point:

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/fiel...enandoah-national-park-murders-25-years-later

 

[AchtungNight]

Men are so emotional when they don’t get picked.


That’s why we opt for the bear. Bears are gonna Bear. Men are less predictable.

Wait, you want the predictable creature that will definitely kill you if it even notices you? Over the one that might help you or might hurt you or might not notice you either?

I’m not the victim, no. I’m _a_ victim. And I will continue to be until you lay down your arms of suspicion and think about what I am saying.

I may be a victim of abuse, but I’m not going to let it become an excuse for me to bully random strangers. I cannot make war on an entire world of potentially bad men- I would get exhausted, not to mention easily killed once enough of them teamed up on me. And I know I wouldn’t like myself turning into the kind of person who would do such a thing either. Better to approach each situation individually, enjoy the benefits of unpredictable situations. Yeah, they might go bad, but what if they don’t? What if a man does help you? You never know when you might benefit from it. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a man you know.

However if you assume from the beginning you won’t and you treat the person like crap from the beginning… I still don’t feel bullying is justified but one can argue it becomes more likely. And would you want to live in the kind of world where every situation happens the same way? Every stranger is a harasser? Every man a threat? Every woman hostile to you on the male side? I know I would not want to live in such a world. Please stop putting me in that box. Just because victims exist does not justify painting every potential person with the same brush.

Until a person hurts me, I don’t get on their case like this. Let alone continue to grind them down. Please stop treating me as your abusers have treated you. The lesson was never required.

 

[cadeauxxx]

Yes, it's, on its face, a silly comparison, but I think that's the point. If women are more afraid of a strange man than a strange bear, then it shows that fear of men is an alarmingly pervasive attitude--regardless of what one thinks of bears. Based on history, and what I know of crime, and things I've heard from women I know, it's justified.

Getting into the nitty gritty of bear v. man, or the objective risks posed by bears, can be interesting or amusing--it amuses me, as one can see from my own posts--but it's a diversion from the main point of the thread.

Silly comparisons are going to be laughed at since they only draw emotional responses, as can be seen all throughout this thread. That's why I keep proposing a better question that can create more nuance and an actual discussion that isn't pushed to the extremes with zero middle ground where we can engage in civil debate.

Man or Dog or Cat or whatever pet you like gets down to better discussions than the absurdity of a dangerous wild beast. Not one person has replied to me wanting to engage with this, but I get plenty of angry responses when I point out the most obvious thing about how bears can fuck someone up.

There definitely needs to be more discussion about misogyny and toxic masculinity we find in culture that is aimed towards us men and treatment of women in specific. Asking women to choose Bear or Man, is not going to do it, and will just lead to this mess of polarized mess of emotional yelling and screaming, and then doubling and tripling down on it when someone dares point out the big elephant in the room of how dangerous bears are.

I think it's much better to listen to women talk about how they feel about encountering a stranger at night. I will never forget the story my fiancé told me years ago about how she is scared of working nightshifts and having to walk in the parking lot after clocking out, and never knowing if there could be someone there to assault her. She kept a can of pepper spray, but when she didn't have it, she would position her keys between her fingers just in case something happened. This fear is something we can acknowledge, talk about and relate to, without comparing it to meeting a bear. Encountering a wild, dangerous animal is going to lead to a cautious response that is not the same thing.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Bears don't regularly attack people. You aren't generally in danger if a bear is near. Generally, they only attack if they are extremely hungry and no other food is handy, there is a scent of blood in the air (don't go bear watching on your period), or you provoke them; hence the saying, don't poke the bear. Firing a gun into the air will, most of the time, frighten them. Shooting them or at them makes them angry--so don't do that. Don't go giving bears a bad name cause you want to make guys look better.

Wait, you want the predictable creature that will definitely kill you if it even notices you? Over the one that might help you or might hurt you or might not notice you either?

I’m not the victim, no. I’m _a_ victim. And I will continue to be until you lay down your arms of suspicion and think about what I am saying.

I may be a victim of abuse, but I’m not going to let it become an excuse for me to bully random strangers. I cannot make war on an entire world of potentially bad men- I would get exhausted, not to mention easily killed once enough of them teamed up on me. And I know I wouldn’t like myself turning into the kind of person who would do such a thing either. Better to approach each situation individually, enjoy the benefits of unpredictable situations. Yeah, they might go bad, but what if they don’t? What if a man does help you? You never know when you might benefit from it. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a man you know.

However if you assume from the beginning you won’t and you treat the person like crap from the beginning… I still don’t feel bullying is justified but one can argue it becomes more likely. And would you want to live in the kind of world where every situation happens the same way? Every stranger is a harasser? Every man a threat? Every woman hostile to you on the male side? I know I would not want to live in such a world. Please stop putting me in that box. Just because victims exist does not justify painting every potential person with the same brush.

Until a person hurts me, I don’t get on their case like this. Let alone continue to grind them down. Please stop treating me as your abusers have treated you. The lesson was never required.

 

[AchtungNight]

Bears don't regularly attack people. You aren't generally in danger if a bear is near. Generally, they only attack if they are extremely hungry and no other food is handy, there is a scent of blood in the air (don't go bear watching on your period), or you provoke them; hence the saying, don't poke the bear. Firing a gun into the air will, most of the time, frighten them. Shooting them or at them makes them angry--so don't do that. Don't go giving bears a bad name cause you want to make guys look better.

Good point. I apologize to bears.

If men regularly attack women, that is despicable. No justification for it exists. It likewise is not justified for every man to get treated like an abuser however. Think about it. Has there ever been a man in your voice who has helped you? A father, brother, husband, lover, whatever the relationship? Why go looking to create more of the bad men than the good?

 

[lustychimera]

To point out the inherent conflict in the question, how about this: as a woman walking in an urban environment at night, would you rather encounter a man you know or one you don't?

Statistically or emotionally? Cuz those answers aren't the same.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

However I have seen many women feel justified in putting down every single man because of a few bad men’s actions.

There's a huge difference between 'putting down' every single man, and *being wary* of every single man.

And acting like every man who dares to disagree with them must therefore be a rapist or a rapist wannabe. My question to you is- when can you stop this? Why can’t you just give a stranger you don’t know and will probably never meet the benefit of the doubt?

Do you really not understand that the non-rapist men and the rapist men look exactly the same?

If some new male colleague asks to put the radio on, sure, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their taste in music. If they want to get into a secluded private area where I could get assaulted, then no, they're not getting that benefit of the doubt until I know them pretty well.

The only thing that will lead to eventually gaining trust is the stranger exhibiting trustworthy action consistently over time. And any guy going "but why won't you trust me instantly? I'm not like those scary other men!" is showing the opposite of trustworthiness.

 

[alohadave]

I’m not the victim, no. I’m _a_ victim. And I will continue to be until you lay down your arms of suspicion and think about what I am saying.

FYI, this isn't about you.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Sure, I have males in my life who have been good or better than that to me. Likewise, some women have been terrible to me. Fewer women than men on that account. The issue isn't how many men have been terrible or wonderful, but which is more dangerous, a bear in the wild or a male stranger in the city. People in our lives can have a reasonable expectation of understanding how they will treat us. In contrast, in the forest of the Rockies, I can ascertain if I'm in danger from a bear when I see him. But a strange man in the park, I have no idea if I'm in danger or not. Rapists, serial killers, or muggers don't wear flashing neon lights on their foreheads that say, "BEWARE."

Good point. I apologize to bears.

If men regularly attack women, that is despicable. No justification for it exists. It likewise is not justified for every man to get treated like an abuser however. Think about it. Has there ever been a man in your voice who has helped you? A father, brother, husband, lover, whatever the relationship? Why go looking to create more of the bad men than the good?

 

[AchtungNight]

But I wasn’t attacking you until you attacked me. And I still will never be abusing you under any circumstances. I’m not a rapist.

In this world we have people who are treated like crap by default because of their age, skin color, sexual preference, and gender. It is never okay.

 

[AchtungNight]

FYI, this isn't about you.

Ok, then stop grinding at me. Stop painting me as something I’m not and don’t want to be.

 

[alohadave]

Ok, then stop grinding at me. Stop painting me as something I’m not and don’t want to be.

You've turned a thread about women into your own personal bitch and moan session about how everyone is ganging up on you and how oppressed you are as a supposed 'nice guy'.

Grow up. You are not the victim, stop acting like it.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Ok, so I went to bed and I wake up and you have replied to me twice, and talked about me third person without the guts to mention my name so obviously you want me to continue pursuing the argument. You really need the attention that badly. Which I'm not the least bit surprised. There are two reasons why I generally scroll past your posts. The first is that they are often not much more than a cry for attention, and the second is that half the time all you do is stick your foot in your mouth and it's embarrassing. And in this thread you've done both, BIG TIME!

I didn't say that I would reach my breaking point, merely hinted at it and asked if people would prefer I not help.

Yes you did. Don't lie. But that's not the point. The point is that you said that it's a woman's own fault for not getting into a car with a stranger. How ridiculous is that?

Ever since the sheer absurdity of that notion was pointed out to you, you've been attacking people in this thread and deflecting the issue - and very poorly I might add, even trying to reference a Simpson's episode that actually works against your argument.

I have an agenda? I suppose that refuting the assertion that women should be more casual about getting into stranger's cars, sure call that an agenda. It is much more plausible to assert that women should blindly get into your car might get you laid is an agenda. I won't assert that but I'll leave it here for perspective.

I feel compelled to point out- again- that all men are not the same.

NO ONE in this thread has said that. That's all you deflecting, and obviously because you feel like you're being called a bad man here. Not one person has said that. That is nothing but the conclusion that you jumped to. For me personally, all that I have replied to is your terribly unwise and damaging advice for women in regards to strangers, yet you automatically assumed that I was attacking you personally. And as for me advising you to get help, I mean that for your benefit. Not because you are necessarily a 'bad' man, but because you are a sick and lonely man who needs the help, and I base that on almost everything that I've read that you've posted in this forum over the past year or so. Almost every post of yours is little more than a cry for attention. You need help. Seriously.

Look, I get that you and the other person on this thread who challenged me have a sex negative agenda or at least a vendetta against me

Bullshit. More deflection, trying to make this about you being bullied (another lie) instead of about the ridiculous statements that you made about women and strange cars.

If you say so. I don’t think a few women still in infancy have had the experience yet.

The most childish argument ever. "I know you are but what am I?" would have been more effective.

It might be better to ask you this. Do you enjoy being a bully? I ask the same thing of every other person on this thread who has said harsh words to me. Do you enjoy bullying? Why or why not? What exactly makes you think it is justified?

Not bullying at all. We are simply calling out your preposterous stance. You're just deflecting because you can't back it up.

However I have seen many women feel justified in putting down every single man because of a few bad men’s actions.

ABSOLUTELY NO ONE has done that. That is all you jumping to conclusion. Nothing more.

Because I chose to admire a few bits of media without considering the context? Haven’t you ever made a mistake?

Wait a minute? Are you actually admitting that your stance about women getting into stranger's cars was wrong? That's all you had to say four pages back and none of this shit would have fallen on you. But then of course you wouldn't have gotten so much attention that you crave.

Calling out someone's terrible take on something isn't bullying. You waded in telling women here how nice you are and they should give nice guys like you a chance and when a multitude of people point out the fallacy of that argument you decide that the best way to escape with your nice guy card intact is to make out you're being unfairly bullied by the mean people telling you why you're wrong.

You are in no way the victim here.

^^ Exactly this.

Why go looking to create more of the bad men than the good?

Now, what the fuck is that supposed to mean? Are you actually blaming women for creating 'bad' men??? Wait no. Don't answer that. You've stepped in enough dog shit already.

And like I said, every one of your posts is a cry for attention. Signing off with ...

Thank you for talking to me. Bye.

... then posting again ...

Enough. I don’t feel like continuing this futility. Please stop calling me out and leave me be!

... then posting again ...

You are unnecessarily making this bad situation worse. Please stop. If you wish to retain any respect.

All more lies. You don't want this to stop. You're the one dragging it all out.

I’m not the victim, no. I’m _a_ victim attention whore.

Like I said off the top. You are the one who has kept this going. Then you beg as all to stop. You;re sick and you need help - a counselor, a therapist, a shrink. You really do.

 

[AchtungNight]

I don’t crave attention. I just don’t like negative attention. Maybe I am an idiot. Can we leave it at that please? Hope so, thanks.

 

[KatieDoes]

Wait, you want the predictable creature that will definitely kill you if it even notices you? Over the one that might help you or might hurt you or might not notice you either?

I’m not the victim, no. I’m _a_ victim. And I will continue to be until you lay down your arms of suspicion and think about what I am saying.

I may be a victim of abuse, but I’m not going to let it become an excuse for me to bully random strangers. I cannot make war on an entire world of potentially bad men- I would get exhausted, not to mention easily killed once enough of them teamed up on me. And I know I wouldn’t like myself turning into the kind of person who would do such a thing either. Better to approach each situation individually, enjoy the benefits of unpredictable situations. Yeah, they might go bad, but what if they don’t? What if a man does help you? You never know when you might benefit from it. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a man you know.

However if you assume from the beginning you won’t and you treat the person like crap from the beginning… I still don’t feel bullying is justified but one can argue it becomes more likely. And would you want to live in the kind of world where every situation happens the same way? Every stranger is a harasser? Every man a threat? Every woman hostile to you on the male side? I know I would not want to live in such a world. Please stop putting me in that box. Just because victims exist does not justify painting every potential person with the same brush.

Until a person hurts me, I don’t get on their case like this. Let alone continue to grind them down. Please stop treating me as your abusers have treated you. The lesson was never required.

This is an absurd premise. Black Bears primary diet is berries, insects and grass. Not humans.

The only way that a bear will attack me is if they feel like they must to survive. Either for food or because I behaved as a threat.

if a bear DOES attack me, it will be fast. A bear won’t keep me in his basement for years. A bear won’t pretend to be nice until I trust him, and then kill me. A bear won’t follow me through the woods bear splaining about how he’s one of the good bears and I should give him a chance and then kill me when I reject him.

A bear sees me as a human, and acts accordingly.

No such guarantee from men.

 

[AchtungNight]

This is an absurd premise. Black Bears primary diet is berries, insects and grass. Not humans.

The only way that a bear will attack me is if they feel like they must to survive. Either for food or because I behaved as a threat.

if a bear DOES attack me, it will be fast. A bear won’t keep me in his basement for years. A bear won’t pretend to be nice until I trust him, and then kill me. A bear won’t follow me through the woods bear splaining about how he’s one of the good bears and I should give him a chance and then kill me when I reject him.

A bear sees me as a human, and acts accordingly.

No such guarantee from men.

You have such guarantee on my part. Never mind how many people have assumed I am otherwise. I could never live with myself if I were a person like the awful men in this world.

I have said it enough. I have other things to do. Until I am called back to fight on the hill again…

 

[Dark_Logan_]

Without reading anywhere near the whole of this thread it has made me appreciate two things

1) too many idiots take metaphors literally

2) the majority of men are ignorant ****s when it comes to understanding and comprehending the genuine fears women have just living, working and socialising amongst men on a daily basis.

 

[Melon_Morph]

Im sure this has been said already in this 7 page thread, but its astounding how many people miss the point of this whole thing. The fact that there would even need to be follow up questions like "what kind of bear?" gets right to the root of the issue. This has nothing to do with analyzing the statistics of bear attacks versus sexual assault. The bear is supposed to be a literal fucking monster but unfortunately humans are often monsters, and men in particular are more likely to fall into that category.

For whatever reason these defensive dorks on the internet either dont understand nuance, or play dumb in order to deflect. It reminds me a lot of gun nuts who dont try to engage in any kind of rational discussion, but instead go "Well you dont even know the difference between a clip and a magazine!"

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I don’t crave attention. I just don’t like negative attention. Maybe I am an idiot. Can we leave it at that please? Hope so, thanks.

Zero change in attitude or MO.

You have such guarantee on my part. Never mind how many people have assumed I am otherwise. I could never live with myself if I were a person like the awful men in this world.

I have said it enough. I have other things to do. Until I am called back to fight on the hill again…

Less than ten minutes we get this. You are not done with this. You will never be done with this. You love it.

 

[OffNSFW]

Im sure this has been said already in this 7 page thread, but its astounding how many people miss the point of this whole thing. The fact that there would even need to be follow up questions like "what kind of bear?" gets right to the root of the issue. This has nothing to do with analyzing the statistics of bear attacks versus sexual assault. The bear is supposed to be a literal fucking monster but unfortunately humans are often monsters, and men in particular are more likely to fall into that category.

For whatever reason these defensive dorks on the internet either dont understand nuance, or play dumb in order to deflect. It reminds me a lot of gun nuts who dont try to engage in any kind of rational discussion, but instead go "Well you dont even know the difference between a clip and a magazine!"

My favorite response I've seen (not on here) is "Even when it's a hypothetical, some men can't take no for an answer."

 

[Paul_Chance]

Bear-splaining. LOL - I like that.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Incidentally, the majority of fatal bear attacks are caused by female bears.

So, you know, in a way...misandry.

 

[lustychimera]

men in particular are more likely to fall into that category.

As regretful as I am to join in on this, I think this needs to be better clarified better. It isn't that men are morally worse creatures than women are. It's that when a man acts out, the consequences are far more dire.

Donald Glover had a joke: "Every man has a crazy ex gf story, mostly funny ones. But you hardly ever hear any crazy ex bf stories.

Ever wonder why?"

It's cuz they're dead."

It's not that women aren't just as prone to being morally reprehensible. It's that when a man acts that way, the results are far more devastating due to the difference in size.

 

[enbiji]

Has anyone seen my bear? I'd like to get my bear back.

Sorry. Just a smidgen of levity.

Interesting question. Wow. I have to be honest, my mind DID kind of go to "specifics" which I think means I have some fear of even contemplating the scenarios.

I'd like to think I could reason with, or outrun, or even outfight at least SOME men. Then again, most bears don't attack for no reason.

I think the problem is, either case is volatile and unpredictable and potentially dangerous to the point of being deadly.

And the real point is...you CAN'T, as a woman, answer this question easily without context...and if either situation were real instead of hypothetical, you probably would have little or no context.

 

[enbiji]

Has anyone seen my bear? I'd like to get my bear back.

Sorry. Just a smidgen of levity.

Interesting question. Wow. I have to be honest, my mind DID kind of go to "specifics" which I think means I have some fear of even contemplating the scenarios.

I'd like to think I could reason with, or outrun, or even outfight at least SOME men. Then again, most bears don't attack for no reason.

I think the problem is, either case is volatile and unpredictable and potentially dangerous to the point of being deadly.

And the real point is...you CAN'T, as a woman, answer this question easily without context...and if either situation were real instead of hypothetical, you probably would have little or no context.

Until it was too late.