Projection v/s Reality

[RJMasters]

No one has begged or pleaded with me to do shit. No one has even said anything to me. I can't speak for Bunny. Here's the thing, if you want someone to sit around and blow sunshine up you're ass..it's not going to be me. I speak my mind. Is the truth not better especially in some of the situations we deal with in this lifestyle? I talk to quite a few people privately from Lit and not one of them have told me that my behavior is unacceptable. Honestly most of them have told me that they agree with a lot of the things that Bunny and I post. If they don't say that publicly then I can't help that. The things I said to Cat needed to be said. I disagree with you there. They are opinions not only held by myself, but others I have talked to. I was just sick of it and finally stated my opinion. You don't have to like it anymore than I like yours.

I think people can and do speak the truth, they just don't have to be a bitch about it every single damn time. I will even grant you that some times the situation may warrant a degree or two of bitchiness, but I think on the whole people are able to get their point of truth across without having to resort to be a bitch. My take is....you actually like being a bitch and you get a thrill by doing it.

As to people talking to you about it in a one on one genuine PM conversation? Surely you jest. Why would anyone want to volunteer for private abuse when they can get humillation added for free by keeping it in public. Usually people are only willing to open up to individuals who show first show they are capable of handling such an honest exchange, I am sorry you think people should first trust and let you prove how sincere you can be, instead of the other way around.

And I never played the there is more people against/for card. I simply pointed out...that at the beginning of this week, we had X amount of people, and due to finally be full of the Bitch BS, today we have less X amount of people.

I even made sure to mention that I couldn't blame you for what others decided to do for themselves, but I do think mentioning the reason they are not here or won't particpate was a valid point. Does stating such a fact bother you? If you like I could just blow sunshine up your ass.

I have never said that the things you have contributed were not good or valid points of opinion. I have simply stated and have agreed with others that there is no excuse for the anti social behavior which you seem to get a thrill from at the expense of others.

When people are closed minded or unfairly judgemental, they rarely get a pass around here, yet when you say you would rather be a bitch and be blunt than to blow sunshine up people asses, you are infering that other people are either self deluted in their own opinions, or its your job as self appointed bitch police to tell people how stupid they are. Its funny when you try to deguise that as some honest attempt to defend the need for truth in this lifestyle.

I think being a bitch is only refreshing when it is the exception to the rule rather than being the rule itself. And even then there needs to be a certain amount of class attached for it to be pulled of correctly.

I don't think being a bitch has anything to do with being a defender of truth or reality.

I don't think when a person is wrong that it neccesatates a Bitch to set them straight, unless it is some kind of unwanted improper personal request being made.

I don't think having a rough life is a blanket excuse for being a bitch.

I believe more often than not, when a person says they are a bitch, what they really mean to say is I am a nag. or maybe that is the difference between projection and reality

 

[stickwork]

Think that this comment would fly if the bitches weren't ladies?

Excuse me.

Ahem...

Fighters please proceed to your neutral corners.

 

[DeservingBitch]

Excuse me.

Ahem...

Fighters please proceed to your neutral corners.

DB takes control of the [insert name for that black thing that dudes on skates fight for], passes it to Stickwork ... who lamentably misses it.

 

[stickwork]

DB takes control of the [insert name for that black thing that dudes on skates fight for], passes it to Stickwork ... who lamentably misses it.

Believe me. I just didn't want to accept the pass.
Knew you could skate with the best of the boys.

 

[RJMasters]

Can someone explain to me what consitutes being a bitch?

Source of the definitions:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...ne:bitch&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

I tossed out the fourlegged definition.

1. gripe: informal terms for objecting; "I have a gripe about the service here"
2. an unpleasant difficulty "this problem is a real bitch"
3. cunt: a woman who is thoroughly disliked;


IMO when someone personifys 1 & 2 they give life and meaning to #3

Sometimes there is such a thing as a legitmate gripe, hence in my world there is such a thing as legitimate "bitchery".

However, when all a person ever does is gripe gripe gripe and they are constantly unpleasant and difficult, then imo they fit the bitch/nag which I believe is the most true definition of the word.

However I do believe that slang usage of the word has often arisen from many sources to include anctedotes such as Catalina suggested and songs: such as
Alanis Morissette's song

I'm a bitch I'm a lover
I'm a child I'm a mother
I'm a sinner I'm a sant
I do not feel ashamed

I take the former to be female bravo type humor, the later to be more from a woman expressing a side of independence such as giving the finger to the system, which the lyrics above connotates or is just a choice of identity.

I do not see what happens around here as adopting the slang ideal within the context of the song because it is really saying that a woman can be all of these things and not be ashamed of who she is Which is totally fine and great. I beleive there are those who romantize the slang version with the intention of justifying closeminded judgmentalism in disguise as asserting independance, the result would look and sound more like this...

I'm a bitch I'm a bitch
I'm a bitch I'm a bitch
I'm a bitch I'm a bitch
I do not feel ashamed

When this happens, I no longer see it as a valid expresion of female independance, rather I see it default back to the true definition of the word.

One who constantly gripes and is unpleasantly difficult personified. Bitch/Nag

 

[JMohegan]

Can we have a referendum on my behavior now? I'm getting pissed that I'm not getting the attention.

(again this is not a comment on the comments directly above mine, which actually look pretty constructive)

Does no one else feel this is a little...how you say, fucked up?

What started as a fairly harmless example from someone's own quote has turned into something pretty ugly and useless. Largely by people doing the exact kinds of behavior they're supposedly coming down on.

Can't say that I've ever seen BiBunny or Nh23 post comments as viciously and personally insulting as some of the ones being thrown at them here. So no, I don't see the behavior as comparable, but yes, I do think this is fucked up.

If someone asked me to name the Lit member most prone to obnoxious swipes over a sustained period of time, targeting anyone with whom he had the slightest disagreement, I'd say Mr. Giant Green Text. And if someone asked me to name the most frequently disruptive poster, prone to hair-trigger, long-winded, and truly vicious personal attacks, I'd say his wife.

Yet if Catalina or RJ ever took either of those two to task for anything at all, that was definitely a thread that I missed.

Is this a new interest in policing forum behavior? If so, I'd like to cast my vote in favor of a simple "Knock off the rudeness," and urging those who are upset by the nasties to simply put them on ignore.

Because "Knock off the rudeness" + a public and personal excoriation is disruptive and rude all by itself, to say the very least.

 

[JMohegan]

I don't know if you can see it from my pov or not, but when you are still joking around with nh23 as to how cool or funny it is in being an admitted bitch, and when you sport "bitch is the new black" still in your sigline as if it is still something to be considered as cool, I think to myself that I am missing something somewhere.

I have siglines turned off, so I missed that, but just as an aside and a *100% non-confrontational* FYI, I offer this link to a Saturday Night Live clip.

Scroll down to the first video link embedded in the article, and if you click on it you'll see a Weekend Update skit, in which Tina Fey offers her endorsement of HRC and delivers the "Bitch is the New Black" line. Fey refers to HRC, and herself, and Amy Poehler as bitches who "get things done".

 

[Netzach]

Source of the definitions:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...ne:bitch&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

I tossed out the fourlegged definition.

1. gripe: informal terms for objecting; "I have a gripe about the service here"
2. an unpleasant difficulty "this problem is a real bitch"
3. cunt: a woman who is thoroughly disliked;


IMO when someone personifys 1 & 2 they give life and meaning to #3

Sometimes there is such a thing as a legitmate gripe, hence in my world there is such a thing as legitimate "bitchery".

However, when all a person ever does is gripe gripe gripe and they are constantly unpleasant and difficult, then imo they fit the bitch/nag which I believe is the most true definition of the word.

However I do believe that slang usage of the word has often arisen from many sources to include anctedotes such as Catalina suggested and songs: such as
Alanis Morissette's song

I'm a bitch I'm a lover
I'm a child I'm a mother
I'm a sinner I'm a sant
I do not feel ashamed

I take the former to be female bravo type humor, the later to be more from a woman expressing a side of independence such as giving the finger to the system, which the lyrics above connotates or is just a choice of identity.

I do not see what happens around here as adopting the slang ideal within the context of the song because it is really saying that a woman can be all of these things and not be ashamed of who she is Which is totally fine and great. I beleive there are those who romantize the slang version with the intention of justifying closeminded judgmentalism in disguise as asserting independance, the result would look and sound more like this...

I'm a bitch I'm a bitch
I'm a bitch I'm a bitch
I'm a bitch I'm a bitch
I do not feel ashamed

When this happens, I no longer see it as a valid expresion of female independance, rather I see it default back to the true definition of the word.

One who constantly gripes and is unpleasantly difficult personified. Bitch/Nag

And what's someone who does this who doesn't have a cunt?

And why the interest in reforming bitches?

I don't see anyone tugging Primalex's sleeve gently and saying "what a fine mind you have, you really could be so much more if you stopped alienating everyone."

This is pretty stomach-turning.

A lot of people should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Netzach]

Can't say that I've ever seen BiBunny or Nh23 post comments as viciously and personally insulting as some of the ones being thrown at them here. So no, I don't see the behavior as comparable, but yes, I do think this is fucked up.

If someone asked me to name the Lit member most prone to obnoxious swipes over a sustained period of time, targeting anyone with whom he had the slightest disagreement, I'd say Mr. Giant Green Text. And if someone asked me to name the most frequently disruptive poster, prone to hair-trigger, long-winded, and truly vicious personal attacks, I'd say his wife.

Yet if Catalina or RJ ever took either of those two to task for anything at all, that was definitely a thread that I missed.

Is this a new interest in policing forum behavior? If so, I'd like to cast my vote in favor of a simple "Knock off the rudeness," and urging those who are upset by the nasties to simply put them on ignore.

Because "Knock off the rudeness" + a public and personal excoriation is disruptive and rude all by itself, to say the very least.

Yeah, that.

 

[intothewoods]

And what's someone who does this who doesn't have a cunt?

And why the interest in reforming bitches?

I don't see anyone tugging Primalex's sleeve gently and saying "what a fine mind you have, you really could be so much more if you stopped alienating everyone."

This is pretty stomach-turning.

A lot of people should be ashamed of themselves.

I've called that dude out. He's annoying as all get out. I know, it's not about me. But still, rude is rude.

This was in fact pretty useless. I'm a fixer, so I thought I could come in here and tell people what to do. I suppose that's having an inflated view of myself.

At any rate, I'm a member of this forum too, and I think it would be nice if people were more respectful in their arguments. This isn't the first time I've said it. I'm friends with a lot of outspoken, direct, blunt and intimidating women, as well as men. We should be able to separate manners from personality.

 

[Netzach]

I've called that dude out. He's annoying as all get out. I know, it's not about me. But still, rude is rude.

This was in fact pretty useless. I'm a fixer, so I thought I could come in here and tell people what to do. I suppose that's having an inflated view of myself.

At any rate, I'm a member of this forum too, and I think it would be nice if people were more respectful in their arguments. This isn't the first time I've said it. I'm friends with a lot of outspoken, direct, blunt and intimidating women, as well as men. We should be able to separate manners from personality.

Oh, I've gotten into it, clearly, with him, but I've spared him, myself, and everyone else the "trying to help you" rhetoric. Eeesh.

Your view of yourself is no more inflated than anyone else's.

 

[intothewoods]

Oh, I've gotten into it, clearly, with him, but I've spared him, myself, and everyone else the "trying to help you" rhetoric. Eeesh.

Your view of yourself is no more inflated than anyone else's.

I get that.

It's a little bit inflated, but I try to keep it to myself.

 

[BeachGurl2]

Wow. The original intent of this thread was very interesting. Too bad it's gone so far south that getting back to it looks almost impossible. For a long time, I posted on Lit daily and really enjoyed myself. Then some of the back biting started and I just didn't want to go there. I come to Lit to enjoy myself, discuss interesting topics, and maybe make a few friends along the way. Listening to people attack each other and get generally nasty isn't my thing. So I'd leave for a bit. Then, I'd miss the people I'd connected with and come back. Then the cycle would begin again. Then I connected with people from Lit off the boards and enjoyed talking to them more than coming to the boards. Then they left for various reasons. So I started coming back again. But again, the nastiness makes it hard to want to stay sometimes. An ugly little cycle that is my own problem, certainly not anyone's here.

I actually am going to respond to some of the earlier stuff in hopes that this thread might get back on track with the OP. Probably won't work, but I'm going to try anyway because I liked pet's original thoughts - I'm a people watcher, too, so the topic always intrigues me. And I'm big on introspection and reflection. Personal growth is important to me, and I like where this thread was headed before the nastiness invaded.

Like for instance i'm very personable and friendly because it conceals that i'm actually very private and untrusting of others, aloof and wary.
pet

It's frustrating sometimes how distant I somehow keep myself despite being so OPEN. I'm not really sure what that's all about, but maybe it's something I project without realizing it or meaning it.

Interestingly enough, these two statements spoke to me more than anything else here. I've been doing a bit of introspection myself lately and find that this identifies me very well. I am untrusting of others because my entire life experience has been that people just plain aren't trustworthy. So it takes a bit for me to truly open up to someone. And when I do, I'm 100% open - it is an all-or-nothing proposition for me emotionally. So when they leave or betray that trust, it's emotionally devastating. And it just reinforces my feelings about trust, just as Caitlynne's post below mentions. Which means next time it takes even longer to open up and let someone in. It's an ugly cycle. And I think, like you say here, pet, that my outgoing, friendly nature probably is a facade for always feeling like I'm on the edge of things rather than in the middle of them. Hmmm, I'll probably think on this a bit more.

It's the catch-22 of many defense mechanisms. You are safe from the danger. Which is the only purpose of a defense mechanism. But, it is so effective that it actually loops around and also becomes reinforcement for the need for the mechanism in the first place. People leave. Sometimes because they have no clue how to relate, but sometimes because it is just so much work to get past the mechanism. But the result is the same.. people leave. That reinforces the need for the mechanism.

It ends up being a 'which came first?" kind of scenario.

And that seems to also lead to the inability to completely do away with the mechanism. Since it is a sort of unending cycle. And each time you believe that you can break through it, something else happens to remind you that you have that mechanism there for a reason. Which reinforces its strength so that next time, it's even harder to let go of. Then when you've spent 40-odd years grooming that mechanism because in those 40-odd years nothing in your life has shown you that it is unnecessary, the knowledge that it's there isn't going to make any real positive difference beyond just the acknowledgment and acceptance of it. Even people who recognize the behavior, point it out to you, and then tell you it is not only counterproductive but unnecessary end up behaving in ways that, again, reinforce the behavior.

The problem is that eventually the mechanism is going to become such an ingrained part of who you are that the walls can't come down, you'll keep people locked out, and you'll still end up alone. The question is, do you end up alone because you've built the walls so high protecting yourself? Or do you end up alone because you allow yourself to become so emotionally hurt that there's nothing left there to connect to? Unless someone sees past the mechanism and likes what they see enough to take the time to truly work past it.

Everyone has a woe-is-me story to tell. Everyone has had bad things happen to them. The telling thing about them is how they handle it. The problem with this medium is that it’s one-dimensional so we only get to see that one aspect that people project in their posting. We can’t see body language, facial expressions, hear tone of voice. And because we only see that one dimension, we form opinions based on that presentation. Sometimes they are accurate. Oftentimes they are not. Because some people who post are projecting someone they aren’t rather than being who they are. And because of the medium, we don’t necessarily know the difference unless we’ve spent time with someone off of the boards. And even then, if the time we’ve spent has been largely via the same medium, we’re still only getting a small picture.

So like Seri, I take it all with a grain of salt. I try not to take anything personally unless it’s directly addressed to me. Yeah, I’m paranoid, too, ADR. But I’ve learned through years here that usually it really isn’t about me, but is about them and their own problems and insecurities. And frankly, I don't really care about that.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Yet if Catalina or RJ ever took either of those two to task for anything at all, that was definitely a thread that I missed.

Although I said I was no longer going to hijack by responding to comments on this issue in this thread, and I was going to address this for you privately and in PM so as not to disrupt the forum further, I find you do not have any means of contact available (no PM or email contact enabled), so I feel this is my only method of answering your comments and clearing things up for you as well as defending my own reputation.

With all due respect, I will allow for the fact you have had a limited time on this forum and as such may have your information seriously limited. If by the 'green print person', you mean IYM and SinnOcent, then you are seriously mistaken. Number one it is up to RJ who and when he chooses to say something to anyone in regards to their performance in the forum. I on the other hand am a moderator (as well as a regular poster), but also one which upholds Lit's policy of free speech as much as possible. When IYM and SinnOcent were here before (yes, this was not their first time as regulars), there was occasion when things were said on the forum, related to a similar subject as the latest from what I know, where I felt they were out of line and had upset many on the forum and so though we had been friends, I did say something and express my distaste with the language and content that had taken place. See, for me, even if someone is my friend, if they step way out of line I do not feel they should be entitled to special treatment because they are my friend. That is how I am in real life, it is how I am here. Most of those I have been friends with have not had a problem with this ethic, most have not been in a position to need to worry about it.

As to the latest incident with them, you may have missed this in your reading of the forum, but I was in Australia visiting my mother who is not expected to live much longer, and also being treated for a medical condition myself which was life threatening. Add to that, I was not living in a house with a computer so except for a couple of visits to people who allowed me to check in briefly, I was totally oblivious to what was happening on Lit so it is a little unreasonable to take me to task for not saying anything I knew nothing about until after the event and they had left.

As to your view of this latest incident, what you are also unaware of is that in the past BB and I have communicated both privately in PM and on the forum about her issues, concerns, feelings, etc. For the most part I have supportive and offered thoughts, experiences, ideas and empathy. This of course I expect you have seen for yourself in your reading of the threads, right up to a week or so ago. Though I try to maintain the free speech policy, as a moderator I am also responsible for everyones enjoyment of the forum and maintaining the forum in a reasonable manner. If it comes to pass as has happened recently where people in volumes of more than one of two are lodging complaints about the behaviour of 2 people on the forum, with more than one or two leaving and more considering it, it then is IMO a choice of do I sit by and let 2 people make the forum their personal playground at the expense of everyone else, I do I step in and take the responsibility of saying somthing to try and remedy the behaviour? This thread was not the first attempt I made, but as we see, none have been heeded. You might also note I did not need to swear and use foul language to convey the message.

I don't know you well enough to know, but for me, when people begin posting statements such as 'take that all you fucking bitches' and similar abuse/attitude to anyone and everyone in various places on the forum, declaring they have more fucking experience and maturity than the rest of the forum' etc.,and often without any provocation, I do not see it as conducive to a harmonious place for the majority (as was voiced by the majority), nor fair to those who just want a place to discuss topics and chat. I am sure as you read the forum extensively, you will have seen these postings and know what I am referring to.

I admit I do not like that type language and it is not the way I was raised...my bias...you might be used to it and feel it is socially acceptable which would put you in the minority around here, I don't know. So then I am in the position of having to make a choice to allow 2 people to rule the forum and in the process lose several long and liked people who have much to offer and have offered, or do I try and do something to stop the train wreck and salvage the forum and the remaining posters. Believe me, if it had been based purely on my personal taste and choice, there would have ben a lot of other times I would have had something to say about behaviour, language etc., on the forum, but it isn't my forum, it is Lit's and all the posters.

As I don't like confrontation at all it was not an easy choice to make, but to allow more people to be hurt and leave seemed something that was not acceptable and as I had taken the responsibility of moderator when I accepted the offered position, I felt I had to overlook my own feelings about confrontation and do something to try and return the forum to discussions, not cussing matches and abuse. I also apologise if it has upset anyone else, but I am not God and can only do what I feel is right which is trying to keep the forum functioning. I hope this clears the misconceptions up.

Catalina

 

[faeriefire]

taking ownership

I do care if I'm actually being a bitch. Thing is *I know* when I am. ..

The only word of advice I have to BB is don't brand youself pre-emptively...

Everyone expresses their own personality through their posts.

BiBunny, bouncing back and forth between being vulnerable and confrontational and ocassionally striking out when feeling shaky. Your love of horses shines through your posts.

Netz, blunt and completely yourself without being nasty. Any sarcasm comes across to me as being completely genuine, just expressing your opinion, not aimed at hurting. Usually it makes me smile.

RJ, long winded and insightful, usually cuts through the crap and gives a direction for future contemplation. AVs make me think rugged cowboy type.

Stickwork, man of few words, excellent at stepping back and blowing the whistle.

JMohegan, good at looking at a situation from a new angle, redirecting to make people think a little, and then returning to the original thought just long enough to say 'knock it off, it's not productive'

Primalex, sarcastic and bored, trying to stir things up to see if anyone will react and entertain him.

nh23, so far been nothing but polite and welcoming to me, it was a surprise to read her words on this post b/c they were aimed directly at specific people in a negative way.

intothewoods, contemplative and nonconfrontational but willing to speak your mind to fix a problem, your opinions on other posts have really made me think.

Catalina, sage wisdom with ocassional irreverence, opinionated without being accusatory, very knowledgable about bdsm.

I know I'm missing people, but this whole thread has become is a mud-slinging party and I think the original topic is interesting. Are my assumptions about you (above), after reading your words for a few weeks spot on, or do you project an image through your words that covers a deeper insecurity? I think if the personal attacks stop this could actually be a very valuable thread for getting people's honest opinions. And that's what a discussion board should be: topic discussion and introspection. For me I still haven't figured out what my online image is or will be. I bounce around depending on my mood and try to put what I'm thinking into words. Do people spend a lot of time contemplating word choice and editing their posts, tailoring their messages to make them look one way or another? If so why? Does your image here differ from the image you project to the world? In a curious frame of mind...

faeriefire

 

[serijules]

Everyone has a woe-is-me story to tell. Everyone has had bad things happen to them. The telling thing about them is how they handle it.

My motto (and yes I live by it) is "It's not the fact you are hurt that counts, but only, how do you take it".

I read it in a book long ago and it's stuck in my head since then.

 

[intothewoods]

Everyone expresses their own personality through their posts.

BiBunny, bouncing back and forth between being vulnerable and confrontational and ocassionally striking out when feeling shaky. Your love of horses shines through your posts.

Netz, blunt and completely yourself without being nasty. Any sarcasm comes across to me as being completely genuine, just expressing your opinion, not aimed at hurting. Usually it makes me smile.

RJ, long winded and insightful, usually cuts through the crap and gives a direction for future contemplation. AVs make me think rugged cowboy type.

Stickwork, man of few words, excellent at stepping back and blowing the whistle.

JMohegan, good at looking at a situation from a new angle, redirecting to make people think a little, and then returning to the original thought just long enough to say 'knock it off, it's not productive'

Primalex, sarcastic and bored, trying to stir things up to see if anyone will react and entertain him.

nh23, so far been nothing but polite and welcoming to me, it was a surprise to read her words on this post b/c they were aimed directly at specific people in a negative way.

intothewoods, contemplative and nonconfrontational but willing to speak your mind to fix a problem, your opinions on other posts have really made me think.

Catalina, sage wisdom with ocassional irreverence, opinionated without being accusatory, very knowledgable about bdsm.

I know I'm missing people, but this whole thread has become is a mud-slinging party and I think the original topic is interesting. Are my assumptions about you (above), after reading your words for a few weeks spot on, or do you project an image through your words that covers a deeper insecurity? I think if the personal attacks stop this could actually be a very valuable thread for getting people's honest opinions. And that's what a discussion board should be: topic discussion and introspection. For me I still haven't figured out what my online image is or will be. I bounce around depending on my mood and try to put what I'm thinking into words. Do people spend a lot of time contemplating word choice and editing their posts, tailoring their messages to make them look one way or another? If so why? Does your image here differ from the image you project to the world? In a curious frame of mind...

faeriefire

Ah, this must be why JMohegan was honored with a response. I've never been into drama for drama's sake, thank you. But Netz is right - no one wants to be told, here's some advice on your behavior. It's good for you.

At any rate, I'll take your complimentary view of me, ff. Thank you.

 

[JMohegan]

I hope this clears the misconceptions up.

In large part, yes. Thank you very much for taking the time to write all that out.

Just to clarify one point about my comments - You are correct about the couple to whom I was referring, but I was addressing their consistent behavior over the course of more than a year (i.e., not just the incident when you were in Australia). To me, she in particular was the absolute queen of personal attacks cloaked in: "I tell it like it is, and if you don't like it too bad!"

The key point here is not that you should have been chastising her on a regular basis, but rather that I don't understand the double standard - when I watched the behavior of her (and others) go repeatedly unchecked, and then see what looks to me like a virtual witch hunt here.

I realize that we all read people differently. I am not asking you, or anyone else, to adopt my view on other forum members as your own. I am simply offering my perspective as food for thought.

As for the comments about your role as moderator, I don't envy you the task. It's not my place to tell you how to do your job, though I would like to respectfully repeat what I said earlier. Public and personal excoriation seems counterproductive, at best.

 

[Netzach]

I must be dreaming. I thought this was a free speech lightly moderated forum and if people have a problem reading someone they have an ignore switch. I'd like to see nobody slapped on the wrist or smacked down and people to use their best SM party etiquitte and find another thread if they have a huge issue, or grow a pair and confront the other party, not play telephone with the mod who then feels he/she must DO something.

If nothing else that's shitty for the mod. FWIW, I vote that it's not your problem, but it's your call.

We're not talking about a spamming non-on-topic gadfly. I've seen far more shit-stirring non-content allowed to stick around because of everyone's faith in our ability to self-regulate.

I'm with JM on this, as I often find myself.

 

[serijules]

Just to clarify one point about my comments - You are correct about the couple to whom I was referring, but I was addressing their consistent behavior over the course of more than a year (i.e., not just the incident when you were in Australia). To me, she in particular was the absolute queen of personal attacks cloaked in: "I tell it like it is, and if you don't like it too bad!"

Try more like 6 years.

 

[Netzach]

Wow. The original intent of this thread was very interesting. Too bad it's gone so far south that getting back to it looks almost impossible. For a long time, I posted on Lit daily and really enjoyed myself. Then some of the back biting started and I just didn't want to go there. I come to Lit to enjoy myself, discuss interesting topics, and maybe make a few friends along the way. Listening to people attack each other and get generally nasty isn't my thing. So I'd leave for a bit. Then, I'd miss the people I'd connected with and come back. Then the cycle would begin again. Then I connected with people from Lit off the boards and enjoyed talking to them more than coming to the boards. Then they left for various reasons. So I started coming back again. But again, the nastiness makes it hard to want to stay sometimes. An ugly little cycle that is my own problem, certainly not anyone's here.

I actually am going to respond to some of the earlier stuff in hopes that this thread might get back on track with the OP. Probably won't work, but I'm going to try anyway because I liked pet's original thoughts - I'm a people watcher, too, so the topic always intrigues me. And I'm big on introspection and reflection. Personal growth is important to me, and I like where this thread was headed before the nastiness invaded.




Interestingly enough, these two statements spoke to me more than anything else here. I've been doing a bit of introspection myself lately and find that this identifies me very well. I am untrusting of others because my entire life experience has been that people just plain aren't trustworthy. So it takes a bit for me to truly open up to someone. And when I do, I'm 100% open - it is an all-or-nothing proposition for me emotionally. So when they leave or betray that trust, it's emotionally devastating. And it just reinforces my feelings about trust, just as Caitlynne's post below mentions. Which means next time it takes even longer to open up and let someone in. It's an ugly cycle. And I think, like you say here, pet, that my outgoing, friendly nature probably is a facade for always feeling like I'm on the edge of things rather than in the middle of them. Hmmm, I'll probably think on this a bit more.



And that seems to also lead to the inability to completely do away with the mechanism. Since it is a sort of unending cycle. And each time you believe that you can break through it, something else happens to remind you that you have that mechanism there for a reason. Which reinforces its strength so that next time, it's even harder to let go of. Then when you've spent 40-odd years grooming that mechanism because in those 40-odd years nothing in your life has shown you that it is unnecessary, the knowledge that it's there isn't going to make any real positive difference beyond just the acknowledgment and acceptance of it. Even people who recognize the behavior, point it out to you, and then tell you it is not only counterproductive but unnecessary end up behaving in ways that, again, reinforce the behavior.

The problem is that eventually the mechanism is going to become such an ingrained part of who you are that the walls can't come down, you'll keep people locked out, and you'll still end up alone. The question is, do you end up alone because you've built the walls so high protecting yourself? Or do you end up alone because you allow yourself to become so emotionally hurt that there's nothing left there to connect to? Unless someone sees past the mechanism and likes what they see enough to take the time to truly work past it.

Everyone has a woe-is-me story to tell. Everyone has had bad things happen to them. The telling thing about them is how they handle it. The problem with this medium is that it’s one-dimensional so we only get to see that one aspect that people project in their posting. We can’t see body language, facial expressions, hear tone of voice. And because we only see that one dimension, we form opinions based on that presentation. Sometimes they are accurate. Oftentimes they are not. Because some people who post are projecting someone they aren’t rather than being who they are. And because of the medium, we don’t necessarily know the difference unless we’ve spent time with someone off of the boards. And even then, if the time we’ve spent has been largely via the same medium, we’re still only getting a small picture.

So like Seri, I take it all with a grain of salt. I try not to take anything personally unless it’s directly addressed to me. Yeah, I’m paranoid, too, ADR. But I’ve learned through years here that usually it really isn’t about me, but is about them and their own problems and insecurities. And frankly, I don't really care about that.

This is a good post I don't want to get totally unacknowledged in the drama stampede.

 

[serijules]

I must be dreaming. I thought this was a free speech lightly moderated forum and if people have a problem reading someone they have an ignore switch.

Exactly. I had/have a problem reading Sinn, so I simply don't read her.
She's been on ignore since 2002. Unfortunately I STILL know most of the details of her nastiness because unfortunately the "quote" option doesn't work on ignored people but since I was always missing 90% of the conversation, it dulled down my itch to respond.

It works...really it does.

 

[Netzach]

Try more like 6 years.

You may be in and out, and you may insist on poor memory, but you miss little, do you?

That said, I personally support people's right to be insulting and annoying, and I support the right of the directly insulted to pipe up, but I do not support this grade seven gym class style of girls social beatdown. It bites. I've been fifteen once, I don't care to relive that moment.

 

[intothewoods]

This is a good post I don't want to get totally unacknowledged in the drama stampede.

Yeah, especially the grain of salt part. It's hard to read tone on a message board.

 

[intothewoods]

In large part, yes. Thank you very much for taking the time to write all that out.

Just to clarify one point about my comments - You are correct about the couple to whom I was referring, but I was addressing their consistent behavior over the course of more than a year (i.e., not just the incident when you were in Australia). To me, she in particular was the absolute queen of personal attacks cloaked in: "I tell it like it is, and if you don't like it too bad!"

The key point here is not that you should have been chastising her on a regular basis, but rather that I don't understand the double standard - when I watched the behavior of her (and others) go repeatedly unchecked, and then see what looks to me like a virtual witch hunt here.

I realize that we all read people differently. I am not asking you, or anyone else, to adopt my view on other forum members as your own. I am simply offering my perspective as food for thought.

As for the comments about your role as moderator, I don't envy you the task. It's not my place to tell you how to do your job, though I would like to respectfully repeat what I said earlier. Public and personal excoriation seems counterproductive, at best.

You are so dispassionately diplomatic, Jack. I wish I could be more like this and less hot-tempered. I'm not kidding!